POLPA Appeal Stage (UKPC Ltd) Parked out of hours

MelNay80

Hello,

I wonder if anyone can assist with a POPLA defense and if mine is enough.

Background:
The driver parked in a car park for exactly 16 mins late at night in an unlocked car park (Barriers were up on this particular night), not realizing that parking enforcement was in place and seeing others parked in there also. We have been back and taken photo's of the entrance in the daytime showing the following signs on entry;

We did notice when we returned to take pictures, that a sign on the other side of the entrance had fallen and propped up against a post which states Maximum 3 Hours in big letters (illegible small writing). Within the car park, most of the signs are facing away from the direction of the one way system, so you see the back of the signs when driving round the car park, although it was dark at the time so these were not noticed anyway. They are also quite high (approx 8ft high)
(Image removed by Forum Team)



The PCN gave 14 days to appeal, it was received 7 days after the letter date, I appealed on the 10th day to UKPC using the template on the NEWBIES thread (not identifying the driver) and received nothing of the requested information back other than them asking me to provide driver details so they can assist further (I did not). So now it has been refused and at the POPLA appeal stage.

During this time, I did not receive a NTK, so I am not sure if it's POFA or not.

So in summary the defense points are;
No NTK received
Parking outside of business hours 
No grace period given on entry or exit
Signage not conforming to BPA

(I have requested a DSAR to UKPC's DPO but not hopeful this will flush out a copy of the NTK in time before the POPLA appeal expires)

Are these points enough for POLPA to dismiss or are there other factors I have missed.

I have read the NEWBIES thread and other POLPA examples, but nothing for parking out of hours out of business hours

TIA

Coupon-mad

The signs are the winning evidence:

- they offer 3 hours free at the entrance

- whilst the other signs have a term in much smaller print (on the left about 'no parking' times) this isn't lit, isn't at the entrance, the barriers were open and 'no parking' doesn't offer anything of value, ergo no contract.

MelNay80

Thank you for your help. We went back to the car park at night and the signs are so high I couldn't read without taking a photo and zooming in. For comparison, my husband is 5'10 an even  with his arms outstretch, he would struggle to touch the sign

Gr1pr

Typical UKPC unlit, wordy,  high up signs 

Draft your popla appeal based mainly on the poor and inadequate unlit faulty signage , plus no landowner authority too  ( not receiving the NTK PCN letter is probably a sideshow,  plus they probably complied with POFA anyway  )

Have a look in the recent decisions in the Popla decisions thread in announcements near the top of the forum,  looking for similar examples in order to copy their wordings 

Check the joint Code of Practice  ( BPA  ) to see what it mentions about signage,  to try to bolster your appeal 

Plus add your own pictures too

Upload as a pdf,  choosing other 

patient_dream

AS C-M says above, it is the 3 hour sign that forms the contract.  The high up signs is typical of UKPC, where you need binoculars to read them. 

The sign that says the car park willl be locked at a certain time clearly does not happen as you drove in
It's the 3 HOUR sign that matters

Hopefully POPLA will understand this but .... they are known for ignorance and they are not idependent, they support the parking industry. If POPLA reject your appeal, no problem, come back here please

MelNay80

Thank you for all your responses, it is a huge help.

I put together the appeal using wording from the examples on the NEWBIES thread and UKPC responded within 4 days with their response pack showing signed land owner agreement, the signage examples and the map showing location of signs (albeit in reality the signs are turned in a different directions now and the entrance one is on the ground). 

I have 7 days to comment on their responses. Should I comment or leave it to the contents of my appeal?

I can upload the redacted responses if it helps.

Thank you

Umkomaas

Try to take apart (rebut) their evidence, particularly anything which is incorrect, or with which you disagree. It's a free shot, so take it. Please note that you cannot add any new appeal points at this stage. 

1505grandad

Also check the dates and times on the photos are relevant to your parking event.

MelNay80

UPDATE: So we lost the POPLA appeal.

They first acknowledged the issues regarding the entrance signs but then didn't address in it their conclusion.

Now we have received 2 chase emails for £170 from ZZPS, do I continue to ignore them?

Coupon-mad

MelNay80 said:

UPDATE: So we lost the POPLA appeal.

They first acknowledged the issues regarding the entrance signs but then didn't address in it their conclusion.

Now we have received 2 chase emails for £170 from ZZPS, do I continue to ignore them?

Of course. We knew you'd likely lose. Doesn't matter a jot.

  

Please post the decision in the POPLA DECISIONS thread (with 10 paragraph breaks added first, because just copying & pasting POPLA's wall of text drives us mad).