Access to my property for building works next door

MeteredOut

bgy3jlh said:

Scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. Thank you - I'll keep the thread updated. 

Good luck with the meeting. Looking forward to reading the minutes

bgy3jlh

MeteredOut said:

bgy3jlh said:

Scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. Thank you - I'll keep the thread updated. 

Good luck with the meeting. Looking forward to reading the minutes

  thank you.

It was with just 1 person, in the end - the architect.

Party wall
I started by asking about assurances re: the party wall act. He said that they sometimes do serve notices but it's not needed in this case because they're not going beneath the foundations...? He was very keen to stress that because this is a local council project I'm in safe hands. I said, well, that would give me confidence if it wasn't for the council-approved builder, who gave a bad impression by pretending not to know what was in the plans, and then trying to encourage me to ignore them, and then telling me (and not asking me) that he will be erecting scaffolding on my land. He kind of apologised on the builder's behalf but gave me his assurances (!?) that he's a very good contractor. I explained that I would like to sell my house and so I need paperwork to assure a potential buyer that the buildings haven't been affected by the extension. He said, what about if we put something in writing from the council and took photographs. I asked, would that involve a party wall surveyor, and he said no. So I said I want the option with the party wall surveyor. He said, that's the party wall notice. He told me that it will mean £2k and a 3-month delay. 

Access to my property
He said that they do need access to my property, and asked what is my reservation about them having access. I said that not giving access protects me and the neighbour from claims of damage, and that I've recently improved my driveway by hand, and even footsteps on it will undo my hard work. It's a thin membrane to keep weeds out, and stones, in a line between the paving slabs. I said that legally they have no claims for access. He said that they do, because the building work can't happen without access. I said that it's an extension and not maintenance, so no they don't.

Throughout, I stressed that I only want to stick to the law. I'm not asking for anything unreasonable, and if delays and costs are incurred then that's not my fault and they should have made provision, either by serving the notice or by making contact with me months ago to ask if they could go ahead without.

It wasn't nice having to argue for what I've come to understand is a basic right. Thank you for your support, on here. Happy to hear any feedback on the above.

Edit: also, the architect seemed to imply that I should have expected from the plans that access would be needed to my driveway....??

Edit: I've just remembered the reason he gave for not needing a PWA: "We're not going to go underneath your foundations." 

MeteredOut

Did you mention your garage in the discussions about the need for a PWA? Did the state how deep their foundations are going, and did you ask how can they know that they're not going deeper than the foundations of your house or garage (though house would be the 45 degree rule assuming > 3 meters from their excavation)?

bgy3jlh

@MeteredOut the house is 2.2 metres from planned extension. No, that kind of didn't come into the conversation. The architect ended the meeting when I said that I want the option that has party wall surveyor input. So, I don't know whether he thinks that the foundations will or won't go lower. Maybe they'll take it back to the office, have a think, and come up with another solution e.g. a free assessment by a party wall surveyor to say that, based on the age of the buildings, it shouldn't be a problem...? My garage is 10-12 years old, and my house was built in the 70s.

bgy3jlh

Update: the neighbour has emailed me a heartfelt plea, asking me to reconsider. The council have told him that a PWA is unnecessary. It seems as though the neighbour has been told that I want a PWA in order to resolve access issues. Not subsidence / undermining of my only structural asset! 

ComicGeek

bgy3jlh said:

The council have told him that a PWA is unnecessary.

The council doesn't get involved with PWA (unless they own one of the properties involved), so they definitely won't have said that. PWA is completely separate to planning and building control issues, and the council won't comment on it.

I would initially reply (and copy in the architect if you have their email) that you are not allowing them access onto your property, and that they are not permitted to install any scaffolding on your property. Make sure any access gates are secured, as they might just try and do it anyway.

Yes, it takes longer to make sure things are done right. And yes, your neighbour will have to pay for professional advice (particularly as the architect seems clueless). But that is the very least you should expect! They should also be killing you with kindness if they really need scaffolding on your land to build the extension (which obviously they don't, it probably just makes it easier and cheaper for the builder). And it's not just the scaffolding itself - they will be constantly traipsing through your garden, there will be piles of materials and rubbish around, radios and phones blasting. And during the summer when I assume you will be wanting to enjoy the garden - what price is that for you?

MeteredOut

bgy3jlh said:

Update: the neighbour has emailed me a heartfelt plea, asking me to reconsider. The council have told him that a PWA is unnecessary. It seems as though the neighbour has been told that I want a PWA in order to resolve access issues. Not subsidence / undermining of my only structural asset! 

Ask them to see what the council has told them. I bet it does not exist.

You said previously, after your conversation with the architect

"He was very keen to stress that because this is a local council project I'm in safe hands. I said, well, that would give me confidence if it wasn't for the council-approved builder,"

It's not clear how the council are involved in this extension, but I suspect the neighbour has spoken to someone on the project team, not someone who actually knows about PWAs.

Don't let them emotionally blackmail you into accepting something you don't want to do because of the neighbours/builders/architects/councils lack of planning and/or knowledge.

I'd be responding refusing any works on my property until in receipt of the party wall notice.

WIAWSNB

As I understand it, you are either 'entitled' to have a PWA Surveyor under the clear guidance, or you are not. It ain't a matter of 'opinion' by the council - if that is what they are suggesting.
Having said that, I would only engage one if I had concerns about my neighbour's - or their builder's - integrity. In effect, if I couldn't trust them to follow the plans or take advantage. I wouldn't blame you for having such concerns.
There have been cases like this on this forum - where a neighbouring extension build has deviated from the plans - and almost certainly the presence of a PWAS would have stopped these breaches in their tracks. Whereas without a PWAS, they had to scrabble around finding the correct legal process to make them stop, undo the work done, and revert to the plans.
With or without a PWAS, if their found-digging causes structural issues to your property, they are liable. If it's a straight-forward build, then there are usually no issues. But if things start to happen - "Hmm, that trench looks deeper than indicated on the plan...", "Should they be taking down that part..."then a surveyor should be able to assure you/ask the builder what the heck he's doing.
What is your neighbour asking you to 'reconsider'? Is it having a PWAS? If so, why?! To save himself around £1k? Or because he thinks his builder might sail close to the wind?
You seem to have had dodgy representation from the builder, and possibly also from the architect. That would almost certainly be enough for me to insist on a PWAS in this case - with no remorse.

bgy3jlh

Thanks all, 

The council involvement is that it's a council-run project because it's a disability adaptation and extension. The building owner is in receipt of a grant for the works.

The owner has been given a half tale by the council. He thinks that the reason I want a PWA is because of access issues. So in a reply that I'm drafting, I'm saying that I want some assurances against structural issues inc subsidence, particularly because I want to market my house and don't want a potential buyer to be put off.

The owner is struggling without the adaptation, to care for his disabled family member. And he's concerned about the delay to the project. 

Working_Mum

I work for a surveyors and technically  if anything is being doing to the joint wall then a Party Wall Agreement is required - even putting up pictures of hanging a big tv could be considered. In practice people don't get permission to hang a TV etc.

I removed a chimney in my house (at ground floor and up to the loft) during a loft conversion and needed a PWA between me and my neighbour. 

I always tell callers the PW surveyor is there to represent the wall and not take sides - it is very black and white.

I hope you get sorted.