Parking Fine Euro car parks

helpindeed

Date of event: 20-3-25
Method of fine: ANPR system
PCN issued: 25-03-25
PCN received: 27-03-25
Total time in car park 1H 2 Min

Appealed online: 19-4-25
Appeal reply: 24-04-25
Appeal decision: refused

Appeal wording:
The driver of the vehicle is a regular users of the Leisure center where the car park is. There is a tablet that requires VRN entry upon arrival inside the center. The driver of the vehicle may have entered one of the digits incorrectly.  The system placed is faulty as it accepts any VRN entered without prompting the user if any digit is entered incorrectly.     


Appeal refusal wording:

Having carefully considered the supporting evidence provided by you, Euro Car Parks (ECP) have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons:
• The Site is operated by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system. ANPR cameras have captured an image of the vehicle registration mark [removed by Forum Team] entering and leaving The Site and calculated the duration of stay.
 • When purchasing a pay and display ticket or mobile payment session, payment is required for the full duration of your stay and for the full and correct vehicle registration mark. Signage at the site clearly details the terms and conditions that you must adhere to.
 • After checking the providers mobile payment and/or pay and display machine audit reports for your stay there are no transactions for the vehicle registration mark.
• We are in receipt of your correspondence; however, you have not provided any supporting documentation to substantiate your appeal. All supporting evidence must be uploaded within 14 days to www.eurocarparks.com/enquiry . Please ensure if you are submitting additional evidence to Euro Car Parks, you do not also submit an appeal direct to POPLA, please include your PCN reference number and vehicle registration mark with your evidence submission. If evidence is unavailable or is not received in the next 14 days, the appeal process will conclude, and the balance will become due.

 The parking charge notice has been issued correctly and remains payable. Please use one of the following options below to make payment for the amount of £100.00:
1. Online: By visiting 
1. Phone: Use the automated telephone service 0203 553 4559. 

Questions:

1. What should be the next step as the 14 days period will end after 1 day.
2. Should the keeper send membership card picture( hiding any names) and pictures of entering VRN on the tablet as evidence?
3. When should the appeal to POPLA be made and what wordings should be used?   

  

fisherjim

It isn't a "fine" it's a speculative invoice.

Point out; those times on their reply do not cover the complete period of your stay.

If you have evidence of entering details on the terminal yes.

Forget the 14 day bribe.

Coupon-mad

Did they only show VRM entries until 7.03 even though you were there longer than that?

Did that reply give a POPLA code yet?

helpindeed

@fisherjim No mate, the driver doesn't have evidence of entering details of that day but can go there any day and take picture of  inputting the VRM. should this be done and what about POPLA?

@Coupon-mad yes POPLA code has been provided. 

helpindeed

@Coupon-mad I believe that 7.03 was the last entry onto the tablet system as they have a payment system as well placed in the car par so others must be using those. 

Coupon-mad

helpindeed said:

@Coupon-mad I believe that 7.03 was the last entry onto the tablet system 

I disagree.

Go when the premises is open and get photos of:

- the tablet

- sign next to tablet

- any extra sign or banner about it inside

- close up of a sign outside

- wide views of no signs visible from bays

- corner areas with no signs

- no signs at the bay nearest the building

- the ENTRANCE: sign or no clear sign.

Come back & show us all of the above because the yellow/blue sign you showed us appears to suggest that after 4.30pm it's pay & display for everyone (yet the exempt list proves otherwise).

helpindeed

Hi,

I have managed to take photos. Hope all the ones required are there. Driver had pared the car at a spot where there are trees and no signage on them. All the signs are far from those front parking spots. Also before 4.30 pm the inside signboard are different and after 4.30pm they turn it and place the front facing. The funny part is that today the car was not even parking at this car park but the tablet still registered the VRN. Driver registered the VRN and it shows clear registration without date or time stamp, will this be enough evidence that their system glitched and the driver had input the registration? should POPLA appeal be made on this biases? Also should the driver attach membership card or this simple pic of VRN on tablet would suffice? 

Coupon-mad

So the signs you are presented with are:

1. Entrance sign on arrival: ECP say the car park is 'permits only' (college, presumably, but that's not stated) before 4.30pm and then 'pay & display' only, after that time. There is no permit scheme operating after 4.30pm according to the ECP signs.

2. ECP's yellow & blue supposed 'full t&cs' sign says the same as the entrance sign and warns of a £100 PCN only in three circumstances ('failure to comply with the following'). Oddly, there is no mention at all of any other arrangements, a keypad or any repercussions for making a typo or putting in the wrong reg (or the keypad failing to upload the VRM for gym goers). Therefore, there are no contractual terms relating to the keypad.

3. As you approach the Leisure Centre doors, a completely different instruction on the walls outside (the black & white sign with a yellow numberplate picture) mentions unspecified 'permitted hours' but offers a new option to members (not offered by ECP outside in the car park).

4. Then when a gym user goes inside, there is a movable 'A-Board' (which the busy gym staff may or may not remember to turn round every day at or after 4.30pm) which has two completely different messages, one of which says you can't park at all, and the other vaguely talks about a 'PENALTY' which is not possible on private land and is an unspecified sum. And neither side of the A-Board even mentions Euro Car Parks, so that new offer (to input your VRM to gain 3 free hours parking) is offered by the Leisure Centre only, not the operator. Euro Car Parks cannot possibly claim to have created the A-Board offer or instructions because their name isn't on it and under the CoP they are not allowed to use the word 'Penalty.' These must be gym-made signs to try to fairly inform members and to make up for the lack of mention of the keypad (or '3 hours free') in the t&cs in the car park.

5. Then at the keypad, whilst it has the Euro Car Parks colours it does not specify the sum of any PCN you are supposedly claiming 'exemption' from, and it refers you to the t&cs 'as displayed in the car park'. But those t&cs don't even mention a keypad or an obligation to input a VRM correctly, or at all. And they are silent about any way to claim 3 hours free parking. It's not even a thing, according to the ECP t&cs outside in the car park.

Therefore, whether a gym user enters their VRM or not, or makes a typo, or even if the keypad fails as happened on the day, no PCN arises because the driver has not breached any of the three t&cs outside on the yellow sign. There's no relevant obligation (POFA phrase), no breach and no PCN arises even if a gym user walks right past the keypad.

Bottom line: the signs outside don't match the keypad inside, which means there was no breach (whatever the issue with the keypad) and this PCN was not properly given.

The terms are at best ambiguous, which as a matter of law (Consumer Rights Act 2015), ambiguous terms in a contract 'must' be interpreted in the way that most favours the consumer. And that is that the offer of 3 hours free is made by the Leisure Centre to members, and (even though they supply the keypad) ECP are a stranger to the contract relating to the keypad and 3 hours free offer.

helpindeed

@Coupon-mad well you have really clarified the whole situation. So should something along with the lines be said in POPLA appeal? Or should this PCN be ignored?

Coupon-mad

I didn't write that complete summary for fun! It's exact words for POPLA.
Not 'something along those lines'...