Euro Parking Services PCN - "for patrons whilst on the premises only"

bobyroach

Hi,

I've received a (actually, two) PCN from Euro parking Services for parking in a "for patrons whilst on the premises only" car park. It is a car park for a fast food place. I was there for under 4 minutes for the first one and under 6 minutes for the second one. For context, the driver is a courier and parked there to collect a parcel from another company, knowing it will have no influence on the car park as the fast food place opens from 12 p.m. and the driver was there at around 10 a.m.
The driver left the premises and they have pictures and maybe video of it.
I have appealed as the keeper with the recommended text but it was declined. In their reply they state: "The car park is free for patrons whilst on the premises only. This is in place so that there is sufficient

spaces available for customers." As the driver was there at around 10 am when the place is closed there were no customers that could be there. Is it something that I could use as an advantage? Any other flaws we can find?
I have attached the pcn.

Thanks a lot and appreciate your help.

Gr1pr

The only way this would be resolved is in a future court claim,  so no point looking for magic bullets,  you wont find any 

If there was no offer of parking or stopping to the driver then no contract is formed 

The joint CoP will explain consideration periods etc, so I suggest that you download it and study it 

Put the paperwork in a drawer and come back to this thread if or when you receive a Letter of Claim or a Court claim within the next 6 years 

There is nothing to be done at this stage

Coupon-mad

Except to educate the the driver who is a courier and parked there to collect a parcel, that you can do that legally on-street!.

NEVER EVER SEEK OUT A CAR PARK FOR LOADING/UNLOADING!

Why would any driver go off the street, where it's exempt to stop for this purpose, even on a double yellow line (as long as there's not a loading restriction sign too, that applies at the time). Literally any kerb except a red route, zig zags or bus lane (or a place with a loading ban) is allowed to be used by couriers.

Car1980

If the shop was closed and there was no way to enter reg details, I'd say this was simply a case of trespass. Does the postman have to pay a charge every morning when he puts letters through the door?
5/6 mins for delivering also doesn't pass the parking test I believe? 

https://www.contestorlegal.co.uk/blog-3/unparalleled-legal-victory-defining-the-true-meaning-of-parking

Either way, personally I'd ignore and wait for any court claim. 4 - 6 mins stopping is risky for them to take a punt.

bobyroach

Thanks everyone for your answers!

Coupon-mad said:

Except to educate the the driver who is a courier and parked there to collect a parcel, that you can do that legally on-street!.

NEVER EVER SEEK OUT A CAR PARK FOR LOADING/UNLOADING!

Why would any driver go off the street, where it's exempt to stop for this purpose, even on a double yellow line (as long as there's not a loading restriction sign too, that applies at the time). Literally any kerb except a red route, zig zags or bus lane (or a place with a loading ban) is allowed to be used by couriers.

It's safe to say the driver won't park there anymore but it's a busy town centre and closest to the POI at the time. The driver also collects from that fast food place but inside of the opening hours and never had issues so guess he didn't think more of it, especially that he wasn't causing any impact on the company as the car park was empty. The driver was in the wrong, no doubt, but to have to pay £60/£100 for a 5 minutes stay (not for leisure or shopping) comes hard.
About the street parking, trust me, the cat and mouse games you have to play with the parking officers around town are not fun. It's maybe because it's a normal car for the job and not a van, or they don't know the law (is it really? couldn't find it).

Anyway, I was looking to see if I have any grounds of appealing at IAS, though I understand the rate of success is low. 

Thanks a lot everyone

Gr1pr

No chance of any appeal succeeding

Follow the previous advice above in the replies 

Coupon-mad

Just ignore it. No paying.

But never mind cat & mouse: if the driver is loading/unloading just use a double yellow without kerb blips.

Real council CEOs MUST observe a car for at least 5 minutes to discount exempt activity.

If the driver needs longer, go back, hop in, turn the car round & face the other way. The 5 minute clock restarts. Does the driver not know all this? I used to do it all the time when moving my kids into university colleges! I just rolled the car forward a tad when collecting the next bag to take to the premises. I just moved the wheels six inches sometimes. It's all you need to do (wheel valves in a different position restarts the clock)

If a real council CEO then issues a ticket, it's a complete cinch to appeal with proof of the delivery job/pick up, for which you actually have longer than 5 mins to do.

bobyroach

Thank you everyone!

If it gets to the court stage, will I have any leg to stand on as I don't see it at the moment? Or I am just buying time and hope they don't pursue it?

Are these reasonable grounds?

- If there was no offer of parking or stopping to the driver then no contract is formed
- If the shop was closed and there was no way to enter reg details, I'd say this was simply a case of trespass
- use the 5/6 minutes period as not parking

If so, can't I try an appeal at the IAS based on these? I understand slim to none chances of success, but why not give it a try?

Am I right in thinking the worst could happen is pay around £500 in total, for the two PCNs + court fees?

ChirpyChicken

your over thinking this
The IAS will simply decline this
move on unless you get a claim or you move house

fisherjim

The driver left the premises and they have pictures and maybe video of it.

They have not said this at all have they and neither should you, they have used ANPR to capture your vehicle trespassing when the restaurant was closed there will be no evidence of you leaving site, there will be no "pictures" or "video".

At 10:39AM it would be fair to assume the place was open a couple of minutes to find out it wasn't and consult the signage is acceptable.

As stated above they were offering no contract to park and if they don't want vehicles entering a car park that encourages you to enter to read the signage it's contradictory, and they should put in a barrier, but of course that would stop their scamming.

Coupon-mad

bobyroach said:

Thank you everyone!

If it gets to the court stage, will I have any leg to stand on as I don't see it at the moment? Or I am just buying time and hope they don't pursue it?

Are these reasonable grounds?

- If there was no offer of parking or stopping to the driver then no contract is formed
- If the shop was closed and there was no way to enter reg details, I'd say this was simply a case of trespass
- use the 5/6 minutes period as not parking

Yes those are winning defence points.

IAS is a kangaroo court, shown by their own published rants against consumers and that assessed cases go against the victim 95% of the time. Forget that idea completely.