Credit Card Debt after Death

Keep_pedalling

madbadrob said:

Brie said:

If anything you could send the legal firm a very short reply to say the estate is insolvent.  You've already told the collection company so this shouldn't be necessary but it might stop them making a fuss.  Any further queries should be returned unopened marked "deceased, return to sender".  

To be very clear - no one else is responsible for paying these debts.  And no you don't have to provide proof of insolvency.  

Your last sentence is in fact not correct.  The executor of a will is required if asked to provide accounts to show that an estate is insolvent.  Otherwise you could just say sorry there is no money and walk off with thousands of pounds.

In relation to the OP I would contact the legal people, explain that you are winding up the estate and that it is clear from your investigations that there is no money in the estate so therefore you cannot pay them anything,.  You say there is no money in the estate to even pay the funeral.  It may help if you contacted the council and tell them that there is no money to pay for this funeral and you dont have the monies to do this and therefore they will need to organise  Puiblic health funeral. This could then also be used to show the creditors of the state of the estate although you of course dont have to.

All in all debts die with the deceased and once you have given them a set of accounts explaining the financials if they continue to contact you contact the law society or any regulatory body associated with the companies.  

Rob

That is not correct, if the estate is insolvent the executor should not attempt to administer it and renounce their powers. They should inform the creditors that no one is administering the estate. With no administrator there is no one to provide a set of accounts. 

Keep_pedalling

Travman25 said:

Thanks guys - really helpful 
So just to be clear - worst case scenario is they ask for a statement of assets of deceased. Do they have any other recourse to demands any more proof. Just want to avoid as many intimidating letters as I can for the family at this time 

As per the post above, you simply do not attempt to administer the account, just inform them that the estate is insolvent and that no one is administering the estate. 

RAS

You can collect together the documents relating to assets and debts without intermeddling. And use such reasonable funds as there may be towards a funeral. That takes priority over unsecured debts.

If they aren't sufficient ask about a public health funeral. Expect the hospital or social services to ask for the documents on assets and debts.

When you write to the creditors advise that if they wish to administer the estate, you are happy to provide such documentation as you have and the executor is happy to renounce. And if there was a public health funeral, tell them.

Travman25

I received a request back from the company asking for a list of assets - the only thing I did not appreciate was that the house which I thought was in my mothers name was in fact a joint tenancy. So although the ownership has passed to my mother do I have to list that as well. I am not actually the executor so I am not sure I should even fill that out 

Declaration:

I confirm that all the information provided is an accurate reflection of the deceased's estate to the

best of my knowledge, and I will provide any information as required to enable any amounts due to

them or the deceased estate to be paid. I confirm that I am authorised to disclose information about

the deceased, and am acting on their behalf to ensure the settlement of their Estate.

Name:

Signed:

Date:

Contact Address:

Keep_pedalling

Do not fill in that form, if you do you are telling them that you are administering the estate and you are not. Either ignore it or write back to say to are not administering the estate, are not authorised to disclose any information and that no one else is either. Probably best to do the later and hopefully they won’t bother his widow either. 

They will be able to find out that he was a joint owner of his home from the land registry and technically they could go to court to sever the tenancy in an attempt to get their money back but that only happens where a loan is very large and the very high legal fees make it worthwhile, it certainly won’t happen for £12k.

Although there is a home it is still not necessary to apply for probate to get his name removed from the land registry. 

fatbelly

Your default setting should be not to complete any form they send

madbadrob

Keep_pedalling said:

madbadrob said:

Brie said:

If anything you could send the legal firm a very short reply to say the estate is insolvent.  You've already told the collection company so this shouldn't be necessary but it might stop them making a fuss.  Any further queries should be returned unopened marked "deceased, return to sender".  

To be very clear - no one else is responsible for paying these debts.  And no you don't have to provide proof of insolvency.  

Your last sentence is in fact not correct.  The executor of a will is required if asked to provide accounts to show that an estate is insolvent.  Otherwise you could just say sorry there is no money and walk off with thousands of pounds.

In relation to the OP I would contact the legal people, explain that you are winding up the estate and that it is clear from your investigations that there is no money in the estate so therefore you cannot pay them anything,.  You say there is no money in the estate to even pay the funeral.  It may help if you contacted the council and tell them that there is no money to pay for this funeral and you dont have the monies to do this and therefore they will need to organise  Puiblic health funeral. This could then also be used to show the creditors of the state of the estate although you of course dont have to.

All in all debts die with the deceased and once you have given them a set of accounts explaining the financials if they continue to contact you contact the law society or any regulatory body associated with the companies.  

Rob

That is not correct, if the estate is insolvent the executor should not attempt to administer it and renounce their powers. They should inform the creditors that no one is administering the estate. With no administrator there is no one to provide a set of accounts. 

Agreed however the OP said in their first post that the executor of the estate had been contacted etc and by that is is safe to assume the executor as started the process of organising the debts of the estate.  As they stated executor it is plausible to believe that probate as been granted and that the "executor" as agreed to dispose of the estate as prescribed.  If this is not the case then the gathering of debts can if the courts so wish be considered intermeddling and they are then as you are aware required to continue.  

So my response was based on the fact he had taken on the role of executor, he had intermeddled and as such was therefore responsible to dispose of this.  

If probate or letters of admon have not been granted and there is no executor as yet then I totally agree that he should just send the letters back stating the estate as nothing to do with him and they should locate the person who is administering the estate

Rob

Keep_pedalling

madbadrob said:

Keep_pedalling said:

madbadrob said:

Brie said:

If anything you could send the legal firm a very short reply to say the estate is insolvent.  You've already told the collection company so this shouldn't be necessary but it might stop them making a fuss.  Any further queries should be returned unopened marked "deceased, return to sender".  

To be very clear - no one else is responsible for paying these debts.  And no you don't have to provide proof of insolvency.  

Your last sentence is in fact not correct.  The executor of a will is required if asked to provide accounts to show that an estate is insolvent.  Otherwise you could just say sorry there is no money and walk off with thousands of pounds.

In relation to the OP I would contact the legal people, explain that you are winding up the estate and that it is clear from your investigations that there is no money in the estate so therefore you cannot pay them anything,.  You say there is no money in the estate to even pay the funeral.  It may help if you contacted the council and tell them that there is no money to pay for this funeral and you dont have the monies to do this and therefore they will need to organise  Puiblic health funeral. This could then also be used to show the creditors of the state of the estate although you of course dont have to.

All in all debts die with the deceased and once you have given them a set of accounts explaining the financials if they continue to contact you contact the law society or any regulatory body associated with the companies.  

Rob

That is not correct, if the estate is insolvent the executor should not attempt to administer it and renounce their powers. They should inform the creditors that no one is administering the estate. With no administrator there is no one to provide a set of accounts. 

Agreed however the OP said in their first post that the executor of the estate had been contacted etc and by that is is safe to assume the executor as started the process of organising the debts of the estate.  As they stated executor it is plausible to believe that probate as been granted and that the "executor" as agreed to dispose of the estate as prescribed.  If this is not the case then the gathering of debts can if the courts so wish be considered intermeddling and they are then as you are aware required to continue.  

So my response was based on the fact he had taken on the role of executor, he had intermeddled and as such was therefore responsible to dispose of this.  

If probate or letters of admon have not been granted and there is no executor as yet then I totally agree that he should just send the letters back stating the estate as nothing to do with him and they should locate the person who is administering the estate

Rob

With no assets other than a house jointly owned by the surviving spouse, probate is not required and no one needs to administer the estate. The OP needs to make this plane to the creditors, and that should be the end of it.

bobster2

madbadrob said:

Agreed however the OP said in their first post that the executor of the estate had been contacted etc and by that is is safe to assume the executor as started the process of organising the debts of the estate.  As they stated executor it is plausible to believe that probate as been granted and that the "executor" as agreed to dispose of the estate as prescribed.  If this is not the case then the gathering of debts can if the courts so wish be considered intermeddling and they are then as you are aware required to continue.  

There's no indication from the OP's posts that any intermeddling has happened yet.

"Gathering debts" in this context means collecting money from people who owe money TO the estate. That would be intermeddling. As would paying debts owed by the deceased to others. Gathering paperwork is not intermeddling.

Travman25

Just coming back to this after some time. I have not had anything to do with the estate. Although the family member was named in the will as executor she did not do anything as there was nothing to do. I just forwarded a death certificate to the credit card company and explained the estate was insolvent. After the family member received a request for a break down of the assets and I have not down anything and neither have they.