British Gas Deemed Contract Bill of 5 years

HillStreetBlues

How I would look at it is the Court fee is £205, if the Energy Ombudsman has ruled both ways the I feel it's a reasonable gamble as the lost would be an extra 5%

MWT

Ectophile said:

This is going to cause loads of arguments, but here goes...

Schedule 6, section 3, of the Electricity Act https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/schedule/6 says

(1)Where an electricity supplier supplies electricity to any premises otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the occupier (or the owner if the premises are unoccupied) for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began so to supply electricity.

(2)Where—

(a)the owner or occupier of any premises takes a supply of electricity which has been conveyed to those premises by an electricity distributor;

(b)that supply is not made by an authorised supplier; and

(c)a supply of electricity so conveyed has been previously made by an electricity supplier,

the owner or occupier shall be deemed to have contracted with the appropriate supplier for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began to take such a supply.

Your argument can be that you have never "taken a supply" of electricity.  You are therefore not a deemed customer.  So without any contract, they have no basis on which to bill you.

Several people have successfully used this argument to cancel a bill.

I know of no legal precedent to back this up.  And when it has been brought up on this forum, nobody has been able to produce any precedent.

The main problem with this approach is that you prove that you have never taken a supply by providing a meter reading to the current supplier the moment you take ownership, and can then show that no energy has been consumed.

With no reading and no contact with the supplier there is no evidence to prove that there has not been any supply...

I suspect that is why the Ombudsman ruled as they did.

This isn't something that the energy supplier has to prove, it is on the customer to take the steps necessary to avoid the standing charge, and if necessary to arrange for the meter to be removed.

The only hope would be if there was a final meter reading buried in the sale documentation, if so and if it has not changed then I'd say there was a good chance of getting this reversed...

ganda2000

MWT said:

Ectophile said:

This is going to cause loads of arguments, but here goes...

Schedule 6, section 3, of the Electricity Act https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/schedule/6 says

(1)Where an electricity supplier supplies electricity to any premises otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the occupier (or the owner if the premises are unoccupied) for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began so to supply electricity.

(2)Where—

(a)the owner or occupier of any premises takes a supply of electricity which has been conveyed to those premises by an electricity distributor;

(b)that supply is not made by an authorised supplier; and

(c)a supply of electricity so conveyed has been previously made by an electricity supplier,

the owner or occupier shall be deemed to have contracted with the appropriate supplier for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began to take such a supply.

Your argument can be that you have never "taken a supply" of electricity.  You are therefore not a deemed customer.  So without any contract, they have no basis on which to bill you.

Several people have successfully used this argument to cancel a bill.

I know of no legal precedent to back this up.  And when it has been brought up on this forum, nobody has been able to produce any precedent.

The main problem with this approach is that you prove that you have never taken a supply by providing a meter reading to the current supplier the moment you take ownership, and can then show that no energy has been consumed.

With no reading and no contact with the supplier there is no evidence to prove that there has not been any supply...

I suspect that is why the Ombudsman ruled as they did.

This isn't something that the energy supplier has to prove, it is on the customer to take the steps necessary to avoid the standing charge, and if necessary to arrange for the meter to be removed.

The only hope would be if there was a final meter reading buried in the sale documentation, if so and if it has not changed then I'd say there was a good chance of getting this reversed...

Thanks for your advice.  I have no proof that I have not consumed any energy.  The estimated reading on the bill dated 5 years ago was 14 units greater than the reading when the meter was installed 35 years ago.  7 units of electricity have been consumed since the last estimated reading, but I have no proof of when it was.

DE_612183

ganda2000 said:

MWT said:

Ectophile said:

This is going to cause loads of arguments, but here goes...

Schedule 6, section 3, of the Electricity Act https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/schedule/6 says

(1)Where an electricity supplier supplies electricity to any premises otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the occupier (or the owner if the premises are unoccupied) for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began so to supply electricity.

(2)Where—

(a)the owner or occupier of any premises takes a supply of electricity which has been conveyed to those premises by an electricity distributor;

(b)that supply is not made by an authorised supplier; and

(c)a supply of electricity so conveyed has been previously made by an electricity supplier,

the owner or occupier shall be deemed to have contracted with the appropriate supplier for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began to take such a supply.

Your argument can be that you have never "taken a supply" of electricity.  You are therefore not a deemed customer.  So without any contract, they have no basis on which to bill you.

Several people have successfully used this argument to cancel a bill.

I know of no legal precedent to back this up.  And when it has been brought up on this forum, nobody has been able to produce any precedent.

The main problem with this approach is that you prove that you have never taken a supply by providing a meter reading to the current supplier the moment you take ownership, and can then show that no energy has been consumed.

With no reading and no contact with the supplier there is no evidence to prove that there has not been any supply...

I suspect that is why the Ombudsman ruled as they did.

This isn't something that the energy supplier has to prove, it is on the customer to take the steps necessary to avoid the standing charge, and if necessary to arrange for the meter to be removed.

The only hope would be if there was a final meter reading buried in the sale documentation, if so and if it has not changed then I'd say there was a good chance of getting this reversed...

Thanks for your advice.  I have no proof that I have not consumed any energy.  The estimated reading on the bill dated 5 years ago was 14 units greater than the reading when the meter was installed 35 years ago.  7 units of electricity have been consumed since the last estimated reading, but I have no proof of when it was.

What is connected on the consumer side of the meter - any sockets? Lights?

Although you can't prove it - 21 units in 35 years is a fairly good pointer that no electricity has been consumed in the last 5 - the Man on the Clapham omnibus would probably concur.

MWT

DE_612183 said:

ganda2000 said:

MWT said:

Ectophile said:

This is going to cause loads of arguments, but here goes...

Schedule 6, section 3, of the Electricity Act https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/schedule/6 says

(1)Where an electricity supplier supplies electricity to any premises otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the occupier (or the owner if the premises are unoccupied) for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began so to supply electricity.

(2)Where—

(a)the owner or occupier of any premises takes a supply of electricity which has been conveyed to those premises by an electricity distributor;

(b)that supply is not made by an authorised supplier; and

(c)a supply of electricity so conveyed has been previously made by an electricity supplier,

the owner or occupier shall be deemed to have contracted with the appropriate supplier for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began to take such a supply.

Your argument can be that you have never "taken a supply" of electricity.  You are therefore not a deemed customer.  So without any contract, they have no basis on which to bill you.

Several people have successfully used this argument to cancel a bill.

I know of no legal precedent to back this up.  And when it has been brought up on this forum, nobody has been able to produce any precedent.

The main problem with this approach is that you prove that you have never taken a supply by providing a meter reading to the current supplier the moment you take ownership, and can then show that no energy has been consumed.

With no reading and no contact with the supplier there is no evidence to prove that there has not been any supply...

I suspect that is why the Ombudsman ruled as they did.

This isn't something that the energy supplier has to prove, it is on the customer to take the steps necessary to avoid the standing charge, and if necessary to arrange for the meter to be removed.

The only hope would be if there was a final meter reading buried in the sale documentation, if so and if it has not changed then I'd say there was a good chance of getting this reversed...

Thanks for your advice.  I have no proof that I have not consumed any energy.  The estimated reading on the bill dated 5 years ago was 14 units greater than the reading when the meter was installed 35 years ago.  7 units of electricity have been consumed since the last estimated reading, but I have no proof of when it was.

What is connected on the consumer side of the meter - any sockets? Lights?

Although you can't prove it - 21 units in 35 years is a fairly good pointer that no electricity has been consumed in the last 5 - the Man on the Clapham omnibus would probably concur.

Can always give it a try of course, but it would be a good idea to at least try to confirm if there is even any wiring connected on the consumer side of the meter as that would go a long way to confirming that those 21 units were consumed a long time ago.

... just don't turn anything on while checking, for obvious reasons...

saajan_12

DE_612183 said:

ganda2000 said:

MWT said:

Ectophile said:

This is going to cause loads of arguments, but here goes...

Schedule 6, section 3, of the Electricity Act https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/schedule/6 says

(1)Where an electricity supplier supplies electricity to any premises otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the occupier (or the owner if the premises are unoccupied) for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began so to supply electricity.

(2)Where—

(a)the owner or occupier of any premises takes a supply of electricity which has been conveyed to those premises by an electricity distributor;

(b)that supply is not made by an authorised supplier; and

(c)a supply of electricity so conveyed has been previously made by an electricity supplier,

the owner or occupier shall be deemed to have contracted with the appropriate supplier for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began to take such a supply.

Your argument can be that you have never "taken a supply" of electricity.  You are therefore not a deemed customer.  So without any contract, they have no basis on which to bill you.

Several people have successfully used this argument to cancel a bill.

I know of no legal precedent to back this up.  And when it has been brought up on this forum, nobody has been able to produce any precedent.

The main problem with this approach is that you prove that you have never taken a supply by providing a meter reading to the current supplier the moment you take ownership, and can then show that no energy has been consumed.

With no reading and no contact with the supplier there is no evidence to prove that there has not been any supply...

I suspect that is why the Ombudsman ruled as they did.

This isn't something that the energy supplier has to prove, it is on the customer to take the steps necessary to avoid the standing charge, and if necessary to arrange for the meter to be removed.

The only hope would be if there was a final meter reading buried in the sale documentation, if so and if it has not changed then I'd say there was a good chance of getting this reversed...

Thanks for your advice.  I have no proof that I have not consumed any energy.  The estimated reading on the bill dated 5 years ago was 14 units greater than the reading when the meter was installed 35 years ago.  7 units of electricity have been consumed since the last estimated reading, but I have no proof of when it was.

What is connected on the consumer side of the meter - any sockets? Lights?

Although you can't prove it - 21 units in 35 years is a fairly good pointer that no electricity has been consumed in the last 5 - the Man on the Clapham omnibus would probably concur.

Well an estimate is just that, they're just looking at historical use not anything actually used during the period. But you're saying 21 units of use since 35 years ago with no actual meter reads? 

MWT

saajan_12 said:

DE_612183 said:

ganda2000 said:

MWT said:

Ectophile said:

This is going to cause loads of arguments, but here goes...

Schedule 6, section 3, of the Electricity Act https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/schedule/6 says

(1)Where an electricity supplier supplies electricity to any premises otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the occupier (or the owner if the premises are unoccupied) for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began so to supply electricity.

(2)Where—

(a)the owner or occupier of any premises takes a supply of electricity which has been conveyed to those premises by an electricity distributor;

(b)that supply is not made by an authorised supplier; and

(c)a supply of electricity so conveyed has been previously made by an electricity supplier,

the owner or occupier shall be deemed to have contracted with the appropriate supplier for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began to take such a supply.

Your argument can be that you have never "taken a supply" of electricity.  You are therefore not a deemed customer.  So without any contract, they have no basis on which to bill you.

Several people have successfully used this argument to cancel a bill.

I know of no legal precedent to back this up.  And when it has been brought up on this forum, nobody has been able to produce any precedent.

The main problem with this approach is that you prove that you have never taken a supply by providing a meter reading to the current supplier the moment you take ownership, and can then show that no energy has been consumed.

With no reading and no contact with the supplier there is no evidence to prove that there has not been any supply...

I suspect that is why the Ombudsman ruled as they did.

This isn't something that the energy supplier has to prove, it is on the customer to take the steps necessary to avoid the standing charge, and if necessary to arrange for the meter to be removed.

The only hope would be if there was a final meter reading buried in the sale documentation, if so and if it has not changed then I'd say there was a good chance of getting this reversed...

Thanks for your advice.  I have no proof that I have not consumed any energy.  The estimated reading on the bill dated 5 years ago was 14 units greater than the reading when the meter was installed 35 years ago.  7 units of electricity have been consumed since the last estimated reading, but I have no proof of when it was.

What is connected on the consumer side of the meter - any sockets? Lights?

Although you can't prove it - 21 units in 35 years is a fairly good pointer that no electricity has been consumed in the last 5 - the Man on the Clapham omnibus would probably concur.

Well an estimate is just that, they're just looking at historical use not anything actually used during the period. But you're saying 21 units of use since 35 years ago with no actual meter reads? 

Agreed, the only way to have any chance of reversing this is to go to the property, check what the meter actually reads, and see what is connected to it...

With any luck there is nothing physically connected so no consumption possible.

Worst case I guess is that someone left a light on more than 5 years ago...