Over-ear headphones can't be returned as a 'hygiene product'

born_again

Clearly a high end product given B&Q & Superdrug sell them & manufacture site gives 404 error for them & they are not listed as a product when you search for them.

Okell

[Deleted User] said:

Not wanting to be difficult, but you've purchased 'on ear' headphones rather than 'over ear' which are a completely different design.

The product you have purchased rests on your ear canal, whereas 'over ear' headphones do not.
This means that your purchase would be considered as 'personal items'.

I can see why they wouldn't accept a return but can also see that their description and t&c should have been clearer.

I'm not so sure I agree with you.

I don't necessarily see how hygiene concerns can be an issue with on-ear headphones as opposed to in-ear devices?  I have on-ear headphones and I think I'd say they sit externally on my outer ear (auricle) rather than on or in my ear canal

And I'm not sure what the relevance is of "personal items"?

savergrant

eskbanker said:

savergrant said:

eskbanker said:

The listing does cross-refer to the returns policy, stating that exclusions apply, but the policy doesn't include them in its definition of what's considered hygiene items, although they might argue it to be illustrative rather than definitive:

For hygiene reasons, we cannot offer returns or refunds on fashion face masks, cosmetics (including beauty products), pierced jewellery, vitamins and supplements, medicines, toiletries, swimwear or lingerie if the product or item has been used, if the hygiene or product seal has been broken or is no longer in place or if the product is not in its original packaging (if applicable), unless faulty.

https://www.debenhams.com/pages/informational/returns

Adult toys are also excluded from change of mind returns.

Is there another document defining other exclusions?

Full paragraph under returns tab;

Product Details & Care

Delivery

Returns

For hygiene reasons, we cannot offer returns or refunds on fashion face masks, cosmetics (including beauty products), pierced jewellery, vitamins and supplements, medicines, toiletries, swimwear or lingerie and adult toys if the product or item has been used, if the hygiene or product seal has been broken or is no longer in place or if the product is not in its original packaging (if applicable), unless faulty.

Items of footwear and/or clothing must be unworn, unwashed with the original labels attached. Items of homeware including bedlinen, mattresses and toppers, and pillows must be unused and in their original unopened packaging. This does not affect your statutory rights. Also, footwear must be tried on indoors.

savergrant

Okell said:

[Deleted User] said:

Not wanting to be difficult, but you've purchased 'on ear' headphones rather than 'over ear' which are a completely different design.

The product you have purchased rests on your ear canal, whereas 'over ear' headphones do not.
This means that your purchase would be considered as 'personal items'.

I can see why they wouldn't accept a return but can also see that their description and t&c should have been clearer.

I'm not so sure I agree with you.

I don't necessarily see how hygiene concerns can be an issue with on-ear headphones as opposed to in-ear devices?  I have on-ear headphones and I think I'd say they sit externally on my outer ear (auricle) rather than on or in my ear canal

And I'm not sure what the relevance is of "personal items"?

I would say 'personal items' are things which you wouldn't share with someone else, such as a toothbrush...

[Deleted User]

Okell said:

[Deleted User] said:

Not wanting to be difficult, but you've purchased 'on ear' headphones rather than 'over ear' which are a completely different design.

The product you have purchased rests on your ear canal, whereas 'over ear' headphones do not.
This means that your purchase would be considered as 'personal items'.

I can see why they wouldn't accept a return but can also see that their description and t&c should have been clearer.

I'm not so sure I agree with you.

I don't necessarily see how hygiene concerns can be an issue with on-ear headphones as opposed to in-ear devices?  I have on-ear headphones and I think I'd say they sit externally on my outer ear (auricle) rather than on or in my ear canal

And I'm not sure what the relevance is of "personal items"?

• Hygiene Concerns:

  Earphones, AirPods, and similar devices are considered personal hygiene items because they come into direct contact with the ear and face. Once the packaging is opened, it's difficult to ensure the product is completely free from contaminants, making it unsuitable for resale. 

eskbanker

savergrant said:

eskbanker said:

savergrant said:

eskbanker said:

The listing does cross-refer to the returns policy, stating that exclusions apply, but the policy doesn't include them in its definition of what's considered hygiene items, although they might argue it to be illustrative rather than definitive:

For hygiene reasons, we cannot offer returns or refunds on fashion face masks, cosmetics (including beauty products), pierced jewellery, vitamins and supplements, medicines, toiletries, swimwear or lingerie if the product or item has been used, if the hygiene or product seal has been broken or is no longer in place or if the product is not in its original packaging (if applicable), unless faulty.

https://www.debenhams.com/pages/informational/returns

Adult toys are also excluded from change of mind returns.

Is there another document defining other exclusions?

Full paragraph under returns tab;

Product Details & Care

Delivery

Returns

For hygiene reasons, we cannot offer returns or refunds on fashion face masks, cosmetics (including beauty products), pierced jewellery, vitamins and supplements, medicines, toiletries, swimwear or lingerie and adult toys if the product or item has been used, if the hygiene or product seal has been broken or is no longer in place or if the product is not in its original packaging (if applicable), unless faulty. <snip>

How strange!  That wording is identical to the generic returns policy save for the extra reference to adult toys, so their document control procedures are apparently lacking....  However, neither refers to earphones being exempted.

[Deleted User] said:

Okell said:

And I'm not sure what the relevance is of "personal items"?

• Hygiene Concerns:

  Earphones, AirPods, and similar devices are considered personal hygiene items because they come into direct contact with the ear and face. Once the packaging is opened, it's difficult to ensure the product is completely free from contaminants, making it unsuitable for resale. 

Where is that wording taken from?  It doesn't correspond with what they say in the above extracts about hygiene-related exemptions....

elsien

[Deleted User] said:

Okell said:

[Deleted User] said:

Not wanting to be difficult, but you've purchased 'on ear' headphones rather than 'over ear' which are a completely different design.

The product you have purchased rests on your ear canal, whereas 'over ear' headphones do not.
This means that your purchase would be considered as 'personal items'.

I can see why they wouldn't accept a return but can also see that their description and t&c should have been clearer.

I'm not so sure I agree with you.

I don't necessarily see how hygiene concerns can be an issue with on-ear headphones as opposed to in-ear devices?  I have on-ear headphones and I think I'd say they sit externally on my outer ear (auricle) rather than on or in my ear canal

And I'm not sure what the relevance is of "personal items"?

• Hygiene Concerns:

  Earphones, AirPods, and similar devices are considered personal hygiene items because they come into direct contact with the ear and face. Once the packaging is opened, it's difficult to ensure the product is completely free from contaminants, making it unsuitable for resale. 

Is that not going to apply to hats and scarves as well then? Which appear to be fine to return. 

Can you please link to the Debenham’s page where you found that definition?

[Deleted User]

The definition I quoted is from Apple (so not directly related), as I mentioned in my first post, Debenhams t&c are lacking.

Many other retailers have similar conditions .

If you go to Richer Sounds, John Lewis etc, they will have banded over-ear headphones on display for customers to try.

Generally speaking (there will be exceptions), 'on-ear' products or 'buds' are not available to try because there are hygiene issues.

A similar thread here
John Lewis earbuds return problem — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Okell

[Deleted User] said:

The definition I quoted is from Apple (so not directly related), as I mentioned in my first post, Debenhams t&c are lacking.

Many other retailers have similar conditions .

If you go to Richer Sounds, John Lewis etc, they will have banded over-ear headphones on display for customers to try.

Generally speaking (there will be exceptions), 'on-ear' products or 'buds' are not available to try because there are hygiene issues.

A similar thread here
John Lewis earbuds return problem — MoneySavingExpert Forum

But Apple don't know their **** from their elbow when it comes to consumer rights!

How often do we see threads on here where someone has bought an Apple product from a third party and they've brought it into an apple store to be looked at after it's broke and been told "It's consumer law that products have to last for 6 years, guv.  Pity you didn't buy it from us 'cos we of course would honour that law, but the people you bought from won't.  We can fix it for you. but it'll cost you ninety hundred quid..."

Stores can't just randomly decide not to allow distance contracts for some products to be cancelled for reasons of hygiene or because they're "personal products" - whatever they are in law.  The items that are exempt from the right to cancel are ones that have been sealed for health or hygiene reasons - not for any other reason.

If you've got a couple of hours to spare this thread covers it Consumer Rights vs Vendor T & C’s — MoneySavingExpert Forum

In particulr see the discussion about what sealed for hygiene means between unholyangel, Parking_Eyerate and Manxman_in_exile.  (I think it's also the first appearance on this forum of the European Court "German mattress" case)

I can't see any justification for "on -ear" headphones to be exempt from cancellation for hygiene reasons.

But I'm not a lawyer so might be wrong...

sheramber

Hygiene items are normally sealed.

Were the headphones sealed?