CPM PCN on a Public Road

UnknownUser1127

fisherjim said:

UnknownUser1127 said:

Surely Essex Highways stating it's a public road trump their signs either way though, I know this sign does indeed exist still facing the road. 

Just because they've got signs on their property facing the road doesn't mean they can enforce on a public road at all.

Indeed, but I would hazard a guess that this might have been a sign put in place by the developer when the properties were being built before adoption by the council (which can take as long as five years).

Or it could have been put in place because someone at the estate asked the PPC to put it there even though they have no authority, I see the homes have their own management company:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08787037/officers

What ever it is it would be seen off as the PPC would have no contract for that area, a search of the local planning site for that development might also show ownership/adoption details.

EDIT

As you have stated reference adopted roads, the Joint COP states the following:

2.31 Relevant Land:

any land (including land above or below ground level) other than:

(a) a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1)
of the Highways Act 1980)

Thanks for the input. 

Update on the situation:

- Complained to DPO for CPM for unlawful access to keeper information with no legitmate reason.
- Complained to DVLA for Data breach
- Appealed to CPM. 


Result: 
- The CPM DPO has cancelled the invoice and sent a massive email saying it has been marked as a breach etc. Allegedly more training is going to be provided. We shall see when I next visit.

Coupon-mad

UnknownUser1127 said:

fisherjim said:

UnknownUser1127 said:

Surely Essex Highways stating it's a public road trump their signs either way though, I know this sign does indeed exist still facing the road. 

Just because they've got signs on their property facing the road doesn't mean they can enforce on a public road at all.

Indeed, but I would hazard a guess that this might have been a sign put in place by the developer when the properties were being built before adoption by the council (which can take as long as five years).

Or it could have been put in place because someone at the estate asked the PPC to put it there even though they have no authority, I see the homes have their own management company:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08787037/officers

What ever it is it would be seen off as the PPC would have no contract for that area, a search of the local planning site for that development might also show ownership/adoption details.

EDIT

As you have stated reference adopted roads, the Joint COP states the following:

2.31 Relevant Land:

any land (including land above or below ground level) other than:

(a) a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1)
of the Highways Act 1980)

Thanks for the input. 

Update on the situation:

- Complained to DPO for CPM for unlawful access to keeper information with no legitmate reason.
- Complained to DVLA for Data breach
- Appealed to CPM. 


Result: 
- The CPM DPO has cancelled the invoice and sent a massive email saying it has been marked as a breach etc. Allegedly more training is going to be provided. We shall see when I next visit.

Great stuff!

Please show us that email and DVLA's response, too. Could be useful.

UnknownUser1127

Coupon-mad said:

UnknownUser1127 said:

fisherjim said:

UnknownUser1127 said:

Surely Essex Highways stating it's a public road trump their signs either way though, I know this sign does indeed exist still facing the road. 

Just because they've got signs on their property facing the road doesn't mean they can enforce on a public road at all.

Indeed, but I would hazard a guess that this might have been a sign put in place by the developer when the properties were being built before adoption by the council (which can take as long as five years).

Or it could have been put in place because someone at the estate asked the PPC to put it there even though they have no authority, I see the homes have their own management company:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08787037/officers

What ever it is it would be seen off as the PPC would have no contract for that area, a search of the local planning site for that development might also show ownership/adoption details.

EDIT

As you have stated reference adopted roads, the Joint COP states the following:

2.31 Relevant Land:

any land (including land above or below ground level) other than:

(a) a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1)
of the Highways Act 1980)

Thanks for the input. 

Update on the situation:

- Complained to DPO for CPM for unlawful access to keeper information with no legitmate reason.
- Complained to DVLA for Data breach
- Appealed to CPM. 


Result: 
- The CPM DPO has cancelled the invoice and sent a massive email saying it has been marked as a breach etc. Allegedly more training is going to be provided. We shall see when I next visit.

Great stuff!

Please show us that email and DVLA's response, too. Could be useful.

So no reply for DVLA yet but I've attached my initial complaint to the DPO and their reply from today. 

I never got a reply on my appeal which reiterated a lot of what I said in my complaint and assume that won't be replied to now. 

Complaint:


Response:

fisherjim

I smell BS!

I think they have been caught out, if they know that road is outside of their operating boundaries why is there a sign their?

This is the usual story from scamming PPCs it's either "human error" or an "admin error". 

Knowing the high turnover of staff PPCs have I would expect this to continue so long as that sign stays in place. I wonder how may other PCNs have been issued and paid.

Their withdrawal response still has an air of we had legitimate reason to hassle you, and does not address the fact that sign should not be there in the first place!

I would complain to the council that a PPC is still operating on the public highway personally.

Half_way

fisherjim said:

I smell BS!

I think they have been caught out, if they know that road is outside of their operating boundaries why is there a sign their?

This is the usual story from scamming PPCs it's either "human error" or an "admin error". 

Knowing the high turnover of staff PPCs have I would expect this to continue so long as that sign stays in place. I wonder how may other PCNs have been issued and paid.

Their withdrawal response still has an air of we had legitimate reason to hassle you, and does not address the fact that sign should not be there in the first place!

I would complain to the council that a PPC is still operating on the public highway personally.

Sounds like a case of lets brush this under the carpet, fob off the complainant and hope this goes away.

One course of action would be to p[ark there again, and / or park a different vehicle in the same space/area

fisherjim

Half_way said:

fisherjim said:

I smell BS!

I think they have been caught out, if they know that road is outside of their operating boundaries why is there a sign their?

This is the usual story from scamming PPCs it's either "human error" or an "admin error". 

Knowing the high turnover of staff PPCs have I would expect this to continue so long as that sign stays in place. I wonder how may other PCNs have been issued and paid.

Their withdrawal response still has an air of we had legitimate reason to hassle you, and does not address the fact that sign should not be there in the first place!

I would complain to the council that a PPC is still operating on the public highway personally.

Sounds like a case of lets brush this under the carpet, fob off the complainant and hope this goes away.

One course of action would be to p[ark there again, and / or park a different vehicle in the same space/area

That definitely sounds like a plan!

UnknownUser1127

fisherjim said:

I smell BS!

I think they have been caught out, if they know that road is outside of their operating boundaries why is there a sign their?

This is the usual story from scamming PPCs it's either "human error" or an "admin error". 

Knowing the high turnover of staff PPCs have I would expect this to continue so long as that sign stays in place. I wonder how may other PCNs have been issued and paid.

Their withdrawal response still has an air of we had legitimate reason to hassle you, and does not address the fact that sign should not be there in the first place!

I would complain to the council that a PPC is still operating on the public highway personally.

I can make this more juicy if you like. 

I have two friends who have had the same happen to them at this location. 

Friend A - Successfully appealed the ticket via the IAS after they had their CPM appeal denied. 

Friend B - Currently has 3 outstanding PCN's at this location which he missed appeal on and has constant spam of debt collection letters from Debt Recovery Plus. Maybe he should complain to the DPO as well as he hasn't done this yet.

I can get evidence of both incidents but not really sure where I would take this further, but happy to do so at the joy of them taking the !!!!!!.

Coupon-mad

UnknownUser1127 said:

fisherjim said:

I smell BS!

I think they have been caught out, if they know that road is outside of their operating boundaries why is there a sign their?

This is the usual story from scamming PPCs it's either "human error" or an "admin error". 

Knowing the high turnover of staff PPCs have I would expect this to continue so long as that sign stays in place. I wonder how may other PCNs have been issued and paid.

Their withdrawal response still has an air of we had legitimate reason to hassle you, and does not address the fact that sign should not be there in the first place!

I would complain to the council that a PPC is still operating on the public highway personally.

I can make this more juicy if you like. 

I have two friends who have had the same happen to them at this location. 

Friend A - Successfully appealed the ticket via the IAS after they had their CPM appeal denied. 

Friend B - Currently has 3 outstanding PCN's at this location which he missed appeal on and has constant spam of debt collection letters from Debt Recovery Plus. Maybe he should complain to the DPO as well as he hasn't done this yet.

I can get evidence of both incidents but not really sure where I would take this further, but happy to do so at the joy of them taking the !!!!!!.

If you all get together and present your evidence to the DVLA (a joint formal complaint presenting all your evidence) and ignore the first knock-back fob off replies and INSIST the complaint and evidence is investigated properly, the DVLA should suspend UKCPM.

Horrible ex-clampers. They deserve sanctions for this and to be forced to identify and refund paid PCNs there. Also, DVLA can't continue to release data to UKCPM knowing this is happening.

Insist. Push the complaint repeatedly. Be a thorn in the DVLA's side. Do not accept BAU replies from the DVLA. Go back again, and again.

fisherjim

So there you go clear evidence that they have been scamming on this site for goodness knows how long, but they have now admitted they know.

Personally I would get another PCN there to show that they really are carrying on with the scam regardless after admitting knowing the area isn't relevant land.

I would hazard a guess that this is self ticketing from some curtain twitcher on site:

"By simply taking photos of offending vehicles on your mobile device and submitting them through the app, you can issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) with minimal effort. We’ll handle the processing and post out the notices, just like our warden or ANPR monitoring solutions. This provides reassurance that every PCN meets compliance standards and keeps your identity private".

Half_way

as far as i know there are GDPR issues with using a personal device.

 Self ticketing should not be permitted