Premier Park PCN

littlepinkbiscuits

Hello,

I have had a look through threads here and hope someone can point me in the right direction as there is a lot of useful information but I'm finding it all confusing.  I am at POPLA appeal stage but this has to be submitted within the next couple of days, I am not sure what my grounds for appeal are.  

Driver drove on to a pub car park and stayed for 20 minutes, didn't realise that even though the pub was closed they had recently installed ANPR parking.  Signs weren't visible from the car on entry due to angle, and also whilst parked up due to height, I am not sure if this is a defence.  As one passenger got out to stretch legs they noticed a sign, and at that point the vehicle left quickly. (EDIT: after leaving the site an attempt was made to download the app, but this took a while, and then we realised there was no location code on the sign nearest to where we were parked.) 

 I have been advised elsewhere that the signage may not be POFA compliant, but that avenue of help is no longer available to me. 

If anyone can advise what documents you need to look at to advise as to what my best line of defence would be, that would be helpful, thank you.

littlepinkbiscuits

Here is the original parking invoice

[img]hxxps://i.imgur.com/NdEkdWd.jpeg[/img]

and the back, if that is any use

[img]hxxps://i.imgur.com/xpjljnF.jpeg[/img]

Here is the view on the approach to the car park

 [img]hxxps://i.imgur.com/sYyMsh3.jpeg[/img]

Signage near the parking space, although very high up

[img]hxxps://i.imgur.com/iZs5ZoG.jpeg[/img]

I have amended the links as per instructions on the newbies thread, hope that is correct!

Gr1pr

Live link to pcn  https://imgur.com/NdEkdWd  and sign  https://imgur.com/iZs5ZoG

Whilst the NTK PCN letter tries to comply with Pofa 2012 , I see no invitation for the keeper to pay 

Pofa2012 compliance tries to transfer liability from the driver to the keeper,  nothing to do with the signage 

The latest BPA CoP gives guidance on signage 

Clearly Premier Park would say that the consideration period of 5 or 10 minutes was exceeded at 20 minutes on site 

Complying with the parking rules would likely be an impossible task if the pub was closed,  we see quite a few honeytrap sites like this on here. Their stance would be that the driver should have paid via some app called  Sippi
( never heard of it   )

littlepinkbiscuits

Thank you for your reply. 

 Yes, the app was Sippi, a passenger was unable to download the app just off site, it loaded later in the day when it wasn't possible to pay retrospectively anyway. 

Is there a standard wording to use in this case please? we have already received the follow up letter and threat of the 'fine' rising to £170 and sending debt collectors.

Gr1pr

There is no standard wording for a popla appeal,  a popla appeal is bespoke 

My thoughts are that the driver tried to comply with the signs, but failed,  so left,  unable to form the parking contract 

Popla may well state that the pcn was correctly issued,  due to the non payment by Sippi app

Most winning popla appeals are due to poor and inadequate signage,  no landowner authority,  pofa , no keeper liability, driver not identified,  or a BPA CoP failure etc

My advice,  if you are going to appeal to popla,  is to study recent cases in the Popla decisions sticky thread in announcements,  looking at the appeals and the decisions , so you get a flavour of them. Get the gist

Stick to the main points, not what happened,  stories dont win at popla, legal arguments win ( a court hearing may be more sympathetic   )

littlepinkbiscuits

Thank you.

Can you explain what you mean by no invitation for the keeper to pay please?

Does anyone know if ANPR cameras require planning permission on private land?

Coupon-mad

littlepinkbiscuits said:

Thank you.

Can you explain what you mean by no invitation for the keeper to pay please?

It's a very tenuous wording observation about the NTK with no legs in court or at POPLA ... so forget that and don't even try POPLA.

Does anyone know if ANPR cameras require planning permission on private land?

Doesn't matter. POPLA don't consider that.

Just do nothing. Do not pay.

Don't engage and please don't show us any of the tedious £170 threatograms shown in the 4th post of the NEWBIES FAQS thread.

You don't have a fine. It's an invoice. Ignore. Tell them if you move house but that's just common sense because obviously you need to open each letter to be sure it's not a LBC or claim form.

Come back if you get a claim form.

Please change your thread title as POPLA just isn't a valid option,