Manchester Bus Gate PCN - Appeal?

jhl1987

Received a PCN 'Alleged bus lane contravention' being in a bus lane. The image provided as evidence from Manchester City Council shows my car on a road with no floor markings or any sign of a bus lane. I went online to ask for evidence of the alleged contravention and linked to their own website that says what shows a bus lane (floor markings). They have now responded saying 'I have noted your comments made however to clarify this PCN was issued because you entered a Bus Gate not a Bus Lane.' 
Can this PCN be enforced given it references a Bus Lane and even they are saying it's not a bus lane?!
Unfortunately we were visiting Manchester so I can't go back and get any more evidence myself but we didn't see any signage and we followed Sat Nav's
It's only £30 / 60 but it feels unjust!!

Mildly_Miffed

A bus gate is a bus lane - just a really short one.

What's the location?

WellKnownSid

There are many sections of road like the Oxford Rd in Manchester that are essentially off limits to cars.  You won't see bus lane markings as such because it's the entire road that's off limits - but they are generally well signed all the way along to say 'no cars'.

Doubtful they would accept the "I was blindly following my sat nav and didn't have time to read the road signs" argument - so I would just put it down to experience and pay up.

RavingMad

I worked and drove in Manchester for 18 years prior to 2017 and I've been done twice since. Once on Oxford Rd and once by Salford Central station 

There's no point in objecting due to lack of signage etc because they are there, just tiny.

They want to catch you out. It's free money for them

Mildly_Miffed

RavingMad said:

There's no point in objecting due to lack of signage etc because they are there, just tiny.

They want to catch you out. It's free money for them

Really?

Because if I follow Oxford Road on Streetview, heading up from the south, I count a "straight on - no entry", a "straight on - dead end" , a LOT of red paint, another "straight on - no entry", and then we get to the actual bus gate, which is clearly signed.

The Salford Central one would be the Bridge St one?
There's bus only signs 300m back, both going straight and turning right onto the road with the gate. Then one at the junction 160m before it, another 30m before, then a left only except buses, before the actual gate.

This is why I asked which gate where. Because signage is usually very clear, just ignored because people are too busy splitting their attention 50/50 between the back bumper of the car immediately in front, and the idiot lantern.

I suspect the real answer here lies in "...and we followed satnavs" - no, they have to take second place to the actual real world signage outside the window.

https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/471/tickets_and_fines/7420/bus_gates
"Please note, these bus gates may not always show up on your SatNav, depending on which system you use. Always ensure you check the physical road signs."
Hardly a radical concept, surely? You'd think it doesn't even need to be said out loud...

RavingMad

Both my occasions were driving in the evening when most of my attention is focused on the traffic rather than stupid no entries that serve no purpose other than make money.  

What purpose does the Bridge st road system serve? Better for buses/taxis for the few hundred yards until they reach the end of the road? Same for Oxford Rd.

Quick Google and Oxford Rd generated £10m in fines a while ago.  Less so now I guess with driver awareness but still, hard to argue it's not a money making machine 

TheSpectator

RavingMad said:

Both my occasions were driving in the evening when most of my attention is focused on the traffic rather than stupid no entries that serve no purpose other than make money.  

What purpose does the Bridge st road system serve? Better for buses/taxis for the few hundred yards until they reach the end of the road? Same for Oxford Rd.

Only relevant fact in that little rant was that you were not paying attention. Do you miss speed limit signs so easily as well?

Mildly_Miffed

RavingMad said:

Both my occasions were driving in the evening when most of my attention is focused on the traffic rather than stupid no entries that serve no purpose other than make money.  

What purpose does the Bridge st road system serve? Better for buses/taxis for the few hundred yards until they reach the end of the road? Same for Oxford Rd.

Quick Google and Oxford Rd generated £10m in fines a while ago.  Less so now I guess with driver awareness but still, hard to argue it's not a money making machine 

All of which is just excuses for ignoring the perfectly clear signage.

It makes no difference WHY there's a restriction on traffic there. The simple fact is that there IS one, and it applies to YOU.

If you actively chose to take a shortcut that cost you £35 - then I hope you found it good value.

badmemory

Sorry but the signage is definitely not that great unless you drive that route on a daily basis.

Mildly_Miffed

Which ones are you thinking of in particular?

Because the ones I looked at seem just fine to me on Streetview. Not just at the restriction, but in the run-up to it.

You won't see signage if you don't look.