Economy 7 or Single Rate?

GasAttacK77

I'm really just hoping for some confirmation that my workings are correct.

We're currently on Economy 7.

Our day / night usage is roughly 50/50, 4700kWh day & 4700kWh night per year.

The best Economy 7 rates I can find are Sainsburys Energy, 29.05p Day & 11.78p Night. As my usage is 50/50 I added them together and divided by 2 to get an average of 20.42p. Their standing charge is 53.05p per day.

£0.2042 x 9400 = £1919.48
£0.5305 x 365 = £193.63
Annual Estimate = £2113.11

The best single rate I can find on a fixed tarrif is Outfox the Market at 18.65p with a standing charge of 63.61p per day

£0.1865 x 9400 - £1753.10
£0.6361 x 365 = £232.18
Annual Estimate = £1985.28

Does that look about right?

I thought with 50/50 usage I'd probably be better on economy 7 but based on those calculations it looks like I'd be better on a single rate.

Any advice?

Anyone seen any better economy 7 rates than those I've listed from Sainsburys Energy?

I find it hard to find economy 7 rates online for some reason.,

To complicate matters further, I've been told that the national database has us down as a single rate meter (PC01) even though we've been economy 7 for 40+ years. Currently with EDF and they're definitely charging based on economy 7 with day and night readings that agree with my meter.

FrugaiMacDugal

Your calculations are correct.

Question is, why 50/50 on E7?

Do you have storage heaters or using panel heaters?

GasAttacK77

We have both storage heaters and panel heaters.

I think it may be partly because wse have Dimplex Quatum storage heaters which store heat at night but pump out heat using a fan during the day.

The only electricity used at night at the lower rate is for the storage heaters and immersion heater.

We're home all day and don't have any gas, so we use a lot of electricity.

My exact usage for the last 12 months was:

4698 - Night
4676 - Day

FrugaiMacDugal

Still seems odd 50/50.

There are a couple of Dimplex Quatum 'experts' who may be along to comment shortly.

Gerry1

The problem is that some comparison sites look up your meter details and usage, and will quote only single rate if you're wrongly shown as Profile Class 1.  Ask your DNO to correct it.

GasAttacK77

My lowqest quotes are:

Single Rate:
18.65p/kWh - Outfox The Market (Fixed - 18M)
19.42p/kWh - Home Energy

Economy 7 (Average Based on 50/50 Day & Night Usage)
19.26p/kWh - Home Energy
19.75p/kWh - Outfox The Market (Fixed - 18M)
19.85p/kWh - Fuse (Fixed - 18M)

Does anyone have any opinions on these energy providers?

Qyburn

GasAttacK77 said:

The best single rate I can find on a fixed tarrif is Outfox the Market at 18.65p with a standing charge of 63.61p per day

That's a surprisingly cheap rate. In fact I had to check the post wasn't from 2019 or something. FWIW OFTM quote 61.979p per day and 27.967p per kWh for our address (N Scotland). And they don't want to quote electricity only.

However if that's correct then single rate would definitely make sense, you could dial back the storage heaters and use more direct heat with no cost impact.

Scot_39

Get your profile class fixed if you can - although might take a while - thats why your getting the single rate by default quotes on some suppliers sites.

If thinking of switching - not sure if you should get EDF to do so - or new supplier (in past when folk with E7 have found ghost meters - it has often been said the supplier responsible for last meter change can get records fixed quicker / easier - but not done so myself).

50:50 isnt terrible news for E7 - but could you improve it ?  

The higher the night - the cheaper the average rate.  

You want heaters like NSH if on E7 - and as you are home all day and likely to want heat all day - going for cheaper non HHR but modernish lot 20 models might suit in some spaces - likes halls or even living room - as some share the same programmability as the HHRs - so models like now GD owned Creda TSRE which come in new £100s cheaper at top end - and probably reflected in second hand values to.

A few posters woke up during crisis to find they were like 20:80 and actaully paying more than flat rate on average - but there are others here - like with battery arrays - who get 90:10 or even more.

Do you have an idea why day use is as high (about 2000 kWh more than the median duel fuel home - but then thats likely based on cooking with gas) ?

Some standard things can use a lot of power - over a year - a meal in conventional oven could reach 1kWh (microwave or air fryer might be cheaper and pay for itself in less than a year if can utilise ) - a hot clothes or cotton wash maybe 1 kWh + (could you drop water temp say 5-10C - or if washing machine has timer - can you wash off peak instead ?).

I have a hot water tank - but its gravity fed - so my shower is electric - 9kW = 1.5 kWh for 10 min shower.  Sounds small but adds up over a year.  Hot water alone is likely thrid to half my annual bill these days as have dropped room temps.

How many day rate panel heaters do you use and for how long per day in winter.  Could one or more be replaced by a second hand lot 20 NSH - or simply used more in off peak - even old generation Quantums or equivalent can be found there days - or could you simply leave internal doors open most of the day / night and have more space het by passive air circulation by the existing NSH.  (My 2 smallish hall NSH - c12kWh models - for instance heat - albeit minimally - bathroom kitchen and 2 bedrooms)

And although real work may not be cheap - could you improve efficiency of home via new insulation - as your 9400 kWh total is also high for an all electric home ?

Meter type and heater type.

Do you have a smart meter ?  

Do your storage heaters and HW immersion rely on meter restricted feed - or are they self timing off a 24/7 live feed ?

Theres a snug octopus tariff that gives 9p overnight - when last checked night was c30% less than their e7 and day 10% cheaper then agian their e7 - if heaters on a restricted circuit and you have a smets 2 meter.

There are other time of use tariffs - some 3 rates - if you can avoid peak supper time type times (4-7pm) - but then that may not provide the restricted feed for NSH if rely on it.

Or rather than NSH - have you considered reverse air con style heating for some spaces - essentially give a sort of COP style enrgy boost - without the need for wet plumping / radiators or air vents etc.

GasAttacK77

Thanks Scot, unfortunately a lot of that goes over my head.

I'm beginning to wonder if I have our Quantum heaters set up correctly. I've set the timers for heat at certain times of the day but I'm not sure when it's charging or how to check / change it. 

It was originally my dads house and the Quatum heaters were installed for free. I think because he was disabled and they were replacing very old NSH. Our supplier at the time (Octopus) had to install a new smart meter and the company that provided the free heaters sent somebody to install them. Would they automatically charge at night? They seem to work fine and pump out plenty of heat during the hours I've set them to kick in. 

Other than the immersion heater (which is on a timer), we don't use any electric at night, so would that suggest the 50% usage must be the storage heaters?

The immersion heater is set to come on for an hour in the night (off peak) and an hour in the day (around 6pm).

We're home all day and use the conventional oven almost every day. The washing machine probably every 3rd day. I also work from home so I have various office items like a desktop computer on all day. That also means we have to heat both upstairs and downstairs all day during the winter.

We have 3 Quantum storage heaters and 4 panels heaters. However, we did do as you suggested and left doors open this past winter, which meant we only needed to use 2 of the panel heaters.

We had new insulation put in last summer.

Based on 50/50 usage, I don't think I can beat Outfox The Market single rate tariff at 18.65p/kWh.

Best economy 7 would be Home Energy, but based on 50/50 usage that would cost slightly more over the year than the best OFTM single rate Tariff.

Gerry1

Does each Quantum have one supply cable or two?

GasAttacK77

I can only see one rather chunky supply cable coming from the Quatum heaters to the hard wired on / off switch.