Struggling to get medical records on deceased

Fluffykittens2016

Good evening,

I am not very clued up in this area, have been doing some research online and am just even more confused, so I was wondering if anyone could kindly perhaps offer any knowledge or experience they have in dealing with this situation please.

Long story short, my sister passed away last month. She was in hospital for a while, some things were questionable but we trusted the doctors etc and there was no indication that she wasn’t going to get better. 
Suddenly she took a decline, she was sent to another hospital and within a week we were told there’s nothing more that they can do, and she passed away. The hospital were surprised we were not told much by the previous one. We didn’t expect this outcome one bit.

My mum has a lot of questions as do I, but we are struggling to get her medical records. She never signed up to NHS online, she didn’t have a will she was in her 30’s, was single, and she still lived at home.
my mum asked the GP for access and they told her they no longer have her records. They advised to look at PCSE but looking on there they only will take requests if the deceaseds GP is no longer running. 

We have tried to submit a subject access request but they want a letter of administration. 

Does the money from shares come under as being ‘estate’? As I’m wondering if we have to pay and am worried that even if we do they can still deny my mum the records. 
This is all very confusing and we just would like answers. We have had someone advise us to look at ‘no win no claim solicitors’. Is this something that people can recommend or is there a better path to take?

Gaining money from this isn’t the goal so I’m nervous about contacting a solicitor and they might not even want to take it on. We just really want to understand what on earth happened and want to understand one of the treatment paths they took which seemed to just make things worse. It’s more for our own understand and if there is negligence, we want it addressed as I’d hate someone else passing the way she had to and the family enduring the suffering we’ve been going through.

Thank you

Kind regards

Savvy_Sue

Have you approached the PALS service at the hospital where she died? 

And, if the GP no longer has her medical records, are they able to advise where they are?

teaselMay

I'm sorry for your loss.

Pals (Patient Advice and Liasion) at the hospital may be able to help you to have a meeting with one of the senior clinicians who looked after your sister, if you make it clear you're just trying to understand. I suspect that the notes won't help you a great deal in understanding what's happened but a short meeting probably will. 

ahfat41

I contacted PALS as I wanted to know how my late husband spent his last few days in hospital. I was given an email address who to contact. I had to provide his death certificate and will. 

BrilliantButScary

https://transform.england.nhs.uk/information-governance/guidance/access-to-the-health-and-care-records-of-deceased-people/

You might find the above helpful, in particular a section at the end about access to GP records. 

elsien

You absolutely do not need a solicitor to get hold of records. And if there’s no money in it for them, a no win no fee solicitor  won’t take it on anyway.
If you have a read through this, towards the end there is a section where family may apply even if they don’t have the legal paperwork. 

https://transform.england.nhs.uk/information-governance/guidance/access-to-the-health-and-care-records-of-deceased-people/#:~:text=Access%20will%20usually%20be%20granted,executor%20in%20the%20deceased's%20will.

Fluffykittens2016

Savvy_Sue said:

Have you approached the PALS service at the hospital where she died? 

And, if the GP no longer has her medical records, are they able to advise where they are?

No we have not tried that yet, I wasn’t sure if the pals service at that hospital would as it’s another hospital we are questioning but could be worth just trying. And no the GP practice didnt, just said she’s no longer on the system, wrote down pcse website for my mum and that was it. 

silvercar

Sorry for your loss.

"Long story short, my sister passed away last month. She was in hospital for a while, some things were questionable but we trusted the doctors etc and there was no indication that she wasn’t going to get better. 
Suddenly she took a decline, she was sent to another hospital and within a week we were told there’s nothing more that they can do, and she passed away. The hospital were surprised we were not told much by the previous one. We didn’t expect this outcome one bit."

Either the second hospital was surprised the first hadn't given more information throughout her stay, or they were surprised that the first hospital didn't update you when she became so ill that she needed to be transferred. It is difficult to see which one is true. 

SevenOfNine

I did this a few years ago. I wasn't asked to PAY for any of it.
Started with request to GP, because I wanted the last 5 years GP notes, they were helpful & told me the process for obtaining those. 

Also gave me contact for getting all hospital notes as well. 

There are forms to be completed & documents to be supplied, the hoops to jump through before anything will be handed over, as is correct. It may be easier if your mother does it, (or you do it in her name), she may hold more weight than a sibling (sorry).

My advice would be the same as the others, PALS at the first hospital will advise you on the process (for both hospitals) as anything I say may well be out of date!

I went on line just now, stuck into google "access to deceased person's medical records at >>>name of hospital<<< & it gave me the link to start the process directly with them, though I recall it being simple enough, I don't actually recall doing it like that, Primary Care Support England were involved (husband thinks that was 'just' for the GP notes though). Afraid my thought process doesn't like returning to the memory of this much, so it's a bit 'foggy'!

I have an email address for PCSE that I'd used: pcse.accessrequests@nhs.net. (but that might have been once the process was already underway). Perhaps give that a try with the 'how' question, but PALS will  point you in the right direction as well

I asked for paper copies, it's a lot of paperwork to look through, you can get Xrays & CT scan copies as well. It's a form & you tick what you want & in what format.

Might you do better with a face2face with a medical professional who handled her care, I don't know, it wasn't what I wanted.

SevenOfNine

elsien said:

You absolutely do not need a solicitor to get hold of records. And if there’s no money in it for them, a no win no fee solicitor  won’t take it on anyway.
If you have a read through this, towards the end there is a section where family may apply even if they don’t have the legal paperwork. 

https://transform.england.nhs.uk/information-governance/guidance/access-to-the-health-and-care-records-of-deceased-people/#:~:text=Access%20will%20usually%20be%20granted,executor%20in%20the%20deceased's%20will.

It's always best to be mindful of "no win, no fee", because that doesn't cover costs of the 'defendant' being awarded against you!

madbadrob

Is the coroner involved in this case? If this was an unexpected death then it may have been prudent for the coroner to be involved and a |PM carried out.  As they were under Doctors care for 14 days prior to the death though this may have stopped a coroner getting involved.

If not you could contact the coronor and ask if they would take a look at the death as you feel the circumstances of the death would warrant a second opinion.  They of course can say no but if they said yes and any failings were found the coroner can make recommendations so it doesnt happen again etc.  Ultimatley this is what you want I understand from your post.

You can still apply for the records as well still.  My thoughts on this though are whether you would understand much of what is put in a medical record?  I ask that with no intention of insulting your intelligence

Rob