Shawbrook Bank - Ignores undelivered maturity emails- assumes you've received them.

TheSpectator

HUMBUG said:

Albermarle said:

When I asked why they transferred my cash isa's into an account that only paid 0.1% rather than their 'Easy Access Cash ISA' at 3.7% , she kept repeating 'Its Our Policy'.  That did annoy me because I said it might be their policy but it doesn't make it right.

Different providers have different policies about what happens to matured fixed rate accounts ( ISA or not). A few  default to opening a new fixed rate account, most default to an easy access account but often one paying a low rate of interest.
Some of us like Shawbrook as you can add to their fixed rate ISAs during the fixed rate term, which although not unique is quite unusual and customer friendly, especially when rates are dropping ! 

That may be a positive for Shawbrook , but the  parking of ISA's after maturity date into some holding ISA account at  0.1% interest is a big negative imho.

Which you could have wholly avoided by one of the following

a) Keeping your contact e-mail address up to date
b) Diarising your maturity dates
c) Logging onto your account on a regular basis. Don't know about others but if I have a few grand parked anywhere I like to 'check in' on it on an at least monthly basis.

kaMelo

Whatever the reason for bounce back nobody ever monitors them, it's simply too Labour intensive as it happens all the time for a multitude of reasons. 

. If you're sending an email to your Auntie Jean and that returns with a 550 undeliverable then yes you may investigate further, but automated systems like this, no chance.

If it's anything like the group I was once a part of, any newsletter emails that bounced back were filtered straight into the bin.

HUMBUG

TheSpectator said:

Most of these outbound notification e-mails are from a 'do not reply' mailbox and in all likelihood do not accept incoming mail so they wouldn't have got any bounce back.

I'm with the majority, this is your own fault. Set up some system of your own to monitor maturing accounts.

I think its a fault from both parties. Me forgetting that MY PROFILE still had the old plusnet email address and theirs for not having a process in place to identify the bouncing back of emails.  Maybe they might agree to a partial refund but I doubt it.  I'll just have to go through the Financial Ombudsman process .

HUMBUG

MeteredOut said:

HUMBUG said:

TheSpectator said:

HUMBUG said:

Here's an old Shawbrook email that was sent to my old plusnet webmail back in Jan 23 and imported to my gmail account. 

It says 'DO NOT REPLY'   so how do they get notified of bounced emails?

---------------------------------------------------------------

Important Message - Your Fixed Rate ISA Bond is about to mature

Shawbrook Bank <Savings.DoNotReply@shawbrook.co.uk>	Fri, Jan 13, 2023, 3:52 PM

Dear Mr XXXXX

You are reaching the end of your Fixed Rate ISA term. You can now access your maturities offer letter in your personal eSavings account, under eDocuments. To view this, you need to log in to your account by visiting the Shawbrook Bank website and then click on the button at the top right of the screen entitled 'Login'.We also want to let you know we’ve made some changes to make choosing your next rate with Shawbrook easier when your account matures (the date your fixed term ISA comes to an end).What's Changing?We provide banking for the real world, so we want to make it easy for you to switch and get the best rates with Shawbrook. That’s why you’ll now be able to see the highest Fixed ISA rates available to you, using your eSavings account. So, if the standard rates have increased since we sent your exclusive maturity offers letter, you’ll be able to choose the best product for you.Once you’ve decided on a fixed product that meets your needs, you can choose which one you want without having to phone us or send us a secure message and be confident you’re getting our best available Fixed ISA rate at that time. And because eSavings is available 24/7, you can manage your account at a time that suits you.What do I need to do?To choose your new savings product and rate, follow these steps:Log in to your eSavings account (visit the Shawbrook website and then click on the button at the top right of the screen entitled 'Login')Choose your productClick on the 3 dots under 'Action' on your home pageChoose 'Setup Maturity Instruction'Pick a product from the scrollable carouselTell us how much you want to investOnce you’ve completed these steps, your request will be processed immediately, and the money will be transferred to the new account when your current product matures.Don’t worry, you can change your mind and pick another product up until the maturity date of your current product. All you have to do is delete it and apply a new instruction by following the steps above.Thanks again for choosing Shawbrook.Kind RegardsAdam Thrower
Head of Savings

Savings​ DoNotReply Savings.DoNotReply@shawbrook.co.uk

As I said above, they won't. 

But the customer representative said if they don't get bounced emails , they won't do due diligence by contacting me by other means . 

But they have setup their systems so that they don't monitor the bouncing of emails.  This is a catch 22 !!!!

If its not in their training/manual, first line telephone reps will tell you anything that sounds convincing so they can move onto the next call.

I suspect you'll have to move on too, and take this experience as a learning exercise.

One of their customer service senior managers is going to contact me within 48 hours. The  1st line rep seemed very robotic in her conversation and just quoting from a script.

HUMBUG

TheSpectator said:

HUMBUG said:

Albermarle said:

When I asked why they transferred my cash isa's into an account that only paid 0.1% rather than their 'Easy Access Cash ISA' at 3.7% , she kept repeating 'Its Our Policy'.  That did annoy me because I said it might be their policy but it doesn't make it right.

Different providers have different policies about what happens to matured fixed rate accounts ( ISA or not). A few  default to opening a new fixed rate account, most default to an easy access account but often one paying a low rate of interest.
Some of us like Shawbrook as you can add to their fixed rate ISAs during the fixed rate term, which although not unique is quite unusual and customer friendly, especially when rates are dropping ! 

That may be a positive for Shawbrook , but the  parking of ISA's after maturity date into some holding ISA account at  0.1% interest is a big negative imho.

Which you could have wholly avoided by one of the following

a) Keeping your contact e-mail address up to date
b) Diarising your maturity dates
c) Logging onto your account on a regular basis. Don't know about others but if I have a few grand parked anywhere I like to 'check in' on it on an at least monthly basis.

I do  b and c  but forgot one account 'Shawbrook' because it was setup in 2010 and I import all emails from plusnet webmail automatically into gmail. So one tends to forget that the old plusnet one still exists.  Yes , this is a pain in the proverbial but I still think it's worth going through the Financial Ombudsman as he will have access to the recorded call I had with the 1st line rep.  She definitely said that if emails are bounced back they would contact me by other means . But if their systems are setup not to receive bounced emails , then the fault is not wholly mine.

Rich1976

HUMBUG said:

TheSpectator said:

HUMBUG said:

Albermarle said:

When I asked why they transferred my cash isa's into an account that only paid 0.1% rather than their 'Easy Access Cash ISA' at 3.7% , she kept repeating 'Its Our Policy'.  That did annoy me because I said it might be their policy but it doesn't make it right.

Different providers have different policies about what happens to matured fixed rate accounts ( ISA or not). A few  default to opening a new fixed rate account, most default to an easy access account but often one paying a low rate of interest.
Some of us like Shawbrook as you can add to their fixed rate ISAs during the fixed rate term, which although not unique is quite unusual and customer friendly, especially when rates are dropping ! 

That may be a positive for Shawbrook , but the  parking of ISA's after maturity date into some holding ISA account at  0.1% interest is a big negative imho.

Which you could have wholly avoided by one of the following

a) Keeping your contact e-mail address up to date
b) Diarising your maturity dates
c) Logging onto your account on a regular basis. Don't know about others but if I have a few grand parked anywhere I like to 'check in' on it on an at least monthly basis.

I do  b and c  but forgot one account 'Shawbrook' because it was setup in 2010 and I import all emails from plusnet webmail automatically into gmail. So one tends to forget that the old plusnet one still exists.  Yes , this is a pain in the proverbial but I still think it's worth going through the Financial Ombudsman as he will have access to the recorded call I had with the 1st line rep.  She definitely said that if emails are bounced back they would contact me by other means . But if their systems are setup not to receive bounced emails , then the fault is not wholly mine.

So what sort of outcome are you expecting from the Ombudsman considering that this is all down to you using an antiquated email system and not keeping your records up to date?

I would expect all you would receive is a standard goodwill gesture but nothing more.

You need to bear in mind for the future that not all company’s processes are slick as you would like and whilst you undoubtedly expect the failed email to be reported on, I have never known or indeed worked for any organisation that does that considering the thousands they must send out automatically.

Jimbobdibob

Sorry for your loss but I have to agree with the majority that Shawbrook have no case to answer.
I am a SB customer and indeed have pointed out their services to friends and family over the years.
What I do agree with though is

"HUMBUG said:

That may be a positive for Shawbrook , but the  parking of ISA's after maturity date into some holding ISA account at  0.1% interest is a big negative imho.

the sort of sharp practice that has led to distrust of financial institutions by many of Joe Public over the years. Just moving to the easy access ISA is surely more ethical?

VNX

HUMBUG said:

Albermarle said:

When I asked why they transferred my cash isa's into an account that only paid 0.1% rather than their 'Easy Access Cash ISA' at 3.7% , she kept repeating 'Its Our Policy'.  That did annoy me because I said it might be their policy but it doesn't make it right.

Different providers have different policies about what happens to matured fixed rate accounts ( ISA or not). A few  default to opening a new fixed rate account, most default to an easy access account but often one paying a low rate of interest.
Some of us like Shawbrook as you can add to their fixed rate ISAs during the fixed rate term, which although not unique is quite unusual and customer friendly, especially when rates are dropping ! 

That may be a positive for Shawbrook , but the  parking of ISA's after maturity date into some holding ISA account at  0.1% interest is a big negative imho.

It is a big negative putting matured accounts into a 0.1pc account, which is exactly why you would act and move the money to another option paying more. (I appreciate the whole old email info)

At the end of the day shawbrook, like all banks are businesses and it suits their purpose to move people into 0.1pc accounts.

a bit like car insurance companies like to up peoples renewal quote hoping they will be apathetic and just stick with what they know, or forget to haggle, same principle.

i understand your frustration and good luck to you, but I can’t see shawbrook budging. 

I sympathise but It’s beholden on the customer to maintain their up to date contact details. 

Hoenir

HUMBUG said:

TheSpectator said:

Most of these outbound notification e-mails are from a 'do not reply' mailbox and in all likelihood do not accept incoming mail so they wouldn't have got any bounce back.

I'm with the majority, this is your own fault. Set up some system of your own to monitor maturing accounts.

I think its a fault from both parties. 

You knew that you had redirected mail but failed to take any corrective action prior to the email account being deleted. 

As soon as I moved over to EE , my old Plusnet webmail account was deleted. I very rarely used that webmail account and had setup my gmail to import any emails sent to my Plusnet Webmail. 

HUMBUG

Rich1976 said:

HUMBUG said:

TheSpectator said:

HUMBUG said:

Albermarle said:

When I asked why they transferred my cash isa's into an account that only paid 0.1% rather than their 'Easy Access Cash ISA' at 3.7% , she kept repeating 'Its Our Policy'.  That did annoy me because I said it might be their policy but it doesn't make it right.

Different providers have different policies about what happens to matured fixed rate accounts ( ISA or not). A few  default to opening a new fixed rate account, most default to an easy access account but often one paying a low rate of interest.
Some of us like Shawbrook as you can add to their fixed rate ISAs during the fixed rate term, which although not unique is quite unusual and customer friendly, especially when rates are dropping ! 

That may be a positive for Shawbrook , but the  parking of ISA's after maturity date into some holding ISA account at  0.1% interest is a big negative imho.

Which you could have wholly avoided by one of the following

a) Keeping your contact e-mail address up to date
b) Diarising your maturity dates
c) Logging onto your account on a regular basis. Don't know about others but if I have a few grand parked anywhere I like to 'check in' on it on an at least monthly basis.

I do  b and c  but forgot one account 'Shawbrook' because it was setup in 2010 and I import all emails from plusnet webmail automatically into gmail. So one tends to forget that the old plusnet one still exists.  Yes , this is a pain in the proverbial but I still think it's worth going through the Financial Ombudsman as he will have access to the recorded call I had with the 1st line rep.  She definitely said that if emails are bounced back they would contact me by other means . But if their systems are setup not to receive bounced emails , then the fault is not wholly mine.

So what sort of outcome are you expecting from the Ombudsman considering that this is all down to you using an antiquated email system and not keeping your records up to date?

I would expect all you would receive is a standard goodwill gesture but nothing more.

You need to bear in mind for the future that not all company’s processes are slick as you would like and whilst you undoubtedly expect the failed email to be reported on, I have never known or indeed worked for any organisation that does that considering the thousands they must send out automatically.

Yes a goodwill gesture would be nice considering I have been saving with them since 2010 and this is the 1st time  there have been any issues regarding communication.  

In this high tech age, surely there must be automated incoming email management processes that are able to filter specific replies such as  'Undelivered' or 'Address Unknown' type responses. Further, they could easily use those replies to filter off the email addresses and link them to the 'Profile' database and send automated SMS text messages to your mobile number with a standard message saying 'We have received returned email from address xxxxxx  , please log into your account and update your Profile with the correct email address'.  The fact that they send emails out with DO NOT REPLY is obviously an easy way to reduce your costs in managing customer email issues. 

I will repeat what I previously posted :

-------------------------------------

If a bank attempts to communicate via an email that no longer exists, they should receive a bounce-back message indicating the email address is invalid. The bank should then investigate why the email is no longer valid (e.g., user changed their email, account closed, etc.) and update their records accordingly. 

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

1. Bounce-Back Message:

Most email systems will automatically send a bounce-back message (also known as a non-delivery report or NDR) back to the sender when a message cannot be delivered to a specific email address. This message will typically explain why the delivery failed, such as the address being invalid or the user no longer accepting emails at that address. 

2. Bank's Response:

Upon receiving a bounce-back message, the bank should:

Verify the email address: The bank should confirm with the customer or the account holder that the email address is indeed invalid. 

Update Records: If the address is confirmed to be invalid, the bank should update their records with the correct email address or the user's new contact information. 

Follow-Up: If the bank cannot verify the email address's validity or reach the customer, they should investigate further and may need to consider alternative communication methods (e.g., postal mail, phone call). 

3. Preventing Future Issues:

To prevent future communication issues, banks should implement procedures to verify and update email addresses periodically. This might involve requiring customers to update their email information regularly or using email verification tools to ensure that email addresses are valid. 
------------------------------------

As I said previously , I don't know if the above is something obligatory that a bank must do or just a recommendation for good business practice.