Shawbrook Bank - Ignores undelivered maturity emails- assumes you've received them.

MeteredOut

HUMBUG said:

MeteredOut said:

Section62 said:

HUMBUG said:

...
One things for sure , when my current cash isa matures next year , I won't be renewing it with Shawbrook , mainly because of their blatant profiteering using a 0.1% interest holding account for matured isas.

Taking a moral stand and avoiding a provider whose practices you don't like is absolutely fine.

But bear in mind the higher fixed term rates you've benefitted from in the past are quite likely to have been enabled by them structuring their product range in the way they have.  By paying a low rate on easy access cash which may be withdrawn at any time (and which they may have no use for in their business model) they have probably been able to deploy the income from this "blatant profiteering" (as you put it) into paying higher fixed rates.

With most providers paying the highest rates there is usually a downside.  Dumping you onto a low interest rate at the end of a fixed-term is a common one, and widely practiced (even by the paragon of virtue, Nationwide BS).  If you are taking a moral stand then do make sure to research any other provider you opt for to make sure they aren't up to anything equally distasteful.

They probably are.

I think this point is worth re-iterating. Those of us who benefit from higher rates do so PRECISELY because there are people like the OP who are not always on top of managing their finances. If everyone went after the higher rates, we'd all be getting 1.5-2.5% interest at present.

So I, for one, celebrate people not updating their email addresses

One day it might happen to you, it's almost guaranteed you will make a mistake . This is the first expensive oversight I've made in 36 years, but age has a lot to do with it (my eyesight and hearing are failing), but  'every cloud has a silver lining' , because at least it's made you happy.

 

I have made mistakes that have cost me financially, but accept those and move on.

eskbanker

HUMBUG said:

Interesting post regarding FOS as I've only searched for cases involving Shawbrook, where the ones I've read  most customer disputes were not upheld.

FOS publishes firm-specific statistical analysis on a bi-annual basis, the most recent of which shows that the uphold rate for banking and credit complaints for Shawbrook is 15%, versus an industry average of 34%:

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/data-insight/our-insight/half-yearly-complaints-data-h1-2024

jimjames

HUMBUG said:

MeteredOut said:

Section62 said:

HUMBUG said:

...
One things for sure , when my current cash isa matures next year , I won't be renewing it with Shawbrook , mainly because of their blatant profiteering using a 0.1% interest holding account for matured isas.

Taking a moral stand and avoiding a provider whose practices you don't like is absolutely fine.

But bear in mind the higher fixed term rates you've benefitted from in the past are quite likely to have been enabled by them structuring their product range in the way they have.  By paying a low rate on easy access cash which may be withdrawn at any time (and which they may have no use for in their business model) they have probably been able to deploy the income from this "blatant profiteering" (as you put it) into paying higher fixed rates.

With most providers paying the highest rates there is usually a downside.  Dumping you onto a low interest rate at the end of a fixed-term is a common one, and widely practiced (even by the paragon of virtue, Nationwide BS).  If you are taking a moral stand then do make sure to research any other provider you opt for to make sure they aren't up to anything equally distasteful.

They probably are.

I think this point is worth re-iterating. Those of us who benefit from higher rates do so PRECISELY because there are people like the OP who are not always on top of managing their finances. If everyone went after the higher rates, we'd all be getting 1.5-2.5% interest at present.

So I, for one, celebrate people not updating their email addresses

One day it might happen to you, it's almost guaranteed you will make a mistake . This is the first expensive oversight I've made in 36 years, but age has a lot to do with it (my eyesight and hearing are failing), but  'every cloud has a silver lining' , because at least it's made you happy.

Long thread but you mentioned earlier the 3 steps you take for products. Except in this case you seem to have missed all 3 steps so I really don't think it's fair to blame the bank that your admin failed on this occasion. Missing an email is one thing but then not seeing diary entries to remind you of the maturity is nothing to do with them. Time to move on in my view.

Section62

HUMBUG said:

....
I do have some evidence that Shawbrook would have received a bounceback email.  I contacted Plusnet and asked them what would have happened to an email sent to my closed webmail and they have stated the following:

-----------------------------------------------

Greetings from Plusnet

If e-mails were sent to your mailbox after it closed, the emails sent to it will typically be rejected as undeliverable. This is because your email address is no longer valid, and the email system won't be able to find your mail server to deliver the message.

Kind regards,

-----------------------------------------------

Not sure "rejected as undeliverable" means a bounceback message would have been sent.  In any event, "typically" gives Shawbrook a potential get out of jail card as "typically" can mean 'usually, but not necessarily always'.

So even if "rejected as undeliverable" does mean a bounceback might be sent, you can't prove it was in this case.

HUMBUG

IanManc said:

One day it might happen to you, it's almost guaranteed you will make a mistake . This is the first expensive oversight I've made in 36 years, but age has a lot to do with it (my eyesight and hearing are failing), but  'every cloud has a silver lining' , because at least it's made you happy.

Finally you admit that it is your mistake.

So now you can stop hassling Shawbrook and you needn't bother wasting the time of the FOS with your pointless spurious complaint.

Happy days. 

Ahh -  I love it when the shills come out to play.

Look at post 
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81405581/#Comment_81405581 

That's where I first admitted the mistake . It was quite early in the thread but you probably didn't read it.

HUMBUG

jimjames said:

HUMBUG said:

MeteredOut said:

Section62 said:

HUMBUG said:

...
One things for sure , when my current cash isa matures next year , I won't be renewing it with Shawbrook , mainly because of their blatant profiteering using a 0.1% interest holding account for matured isas.

Taking a moral stand and avoiding a provider whose practices you don't like is absolutely fine.

But bear in mind the higher fixed term rates you've benefitted from in the past are quite likely to have been enabled by them structuring their product range in the way they have.  By paying a low rate on easy access cash which may be withdrawn at any time (and which they may have no use for in their business model) they have probably been able to deploy the income from this "blatant profiteering" (as you put it) into paying higher fixed rates.

With most providers paying the highest rates there is usually a downside.  Dumping you onto a low interest rate at the end of a fixed-term is a common one, and widely practiced (even by the paragon of virtue, Nationwide BS).  If you are taking a moral stand then do make sure to research any other provider you opt for to make sure they aren't up to anything equally distasteful.

They probably are.

I think this point is worth re-iterating. Those of us who benefit from higher rates do so PRECISELY because there are people like the OP who are not always on top of managing their finances. If everyone went after the higher rates, we'd all be getting 1.5-2.5% interest at present.

So I, for one, celebrate people not updating their email addresses

One day it might happen to you, it's almost guaranteed you will make a mistake . This is the first expensive oversight I've made in 36 years, but age has a lot to do with it (my eyesight and hearing are failing), but  'every cloud has a silver lining' , because at least it's made you happy.

Long thread but you mentioned earlier the 3 steps you take for products. Except in this case you seem to have missed all 3 steps so I really don't think it's fair to blame the bank that your admin failed on this occasion. Missing an email is one thing but then not seeing diary entries to remind you of the maturity is nothing to do with them. Time to move on in my view.

I disagree.

HUMBUG

Section62 said:

HUMBUG said:

....
I do have some evidence that Shawbrook would have received a bounceback email.  I contacted Plusnet and asked them what would have happened to an email sent to my closed webmail and they have stated the following:

-----------------------------------------------

Greetings from Plusnet

If e-mails were sent to your mailbox after it closed, the emails sent to it will typically be rejected as undeliverable. This is because your email address is no longer valid, and the email system won't be able to find your mail server to deliver the message.

Kind regards,

-----------------------------------------------

Not sure "rejected as undeliverable" means a bounceback message would have been sent.  In any event, "typically" gives Shawbrook a potential get out of jail card as "typically" can mean 'usually, but not necessarily always'.

So even if "rejected as undeliverable" does mean a bounceback might be sent, you can't prove it was in this case.

When I send an email to my old plusnet webmail I get a return email saying  'Address Not Found' . Wouldn't Shawbrook get the same type of reply?

Address not found

Your message wasn't delivered to xxxxx @broadplus.plus.com because the domain broadplus.plus.com couldn't be found. Check for typos or unnecessary spaces and try again. It doesn't matter anyway because they've admitted they don't monitor any automated emails they send out to customers.

booneruk

HUMBUG said:

When I send an email to my old plusnet webmail I get a return email saying  'Address Not Found' . Wouldn't Shawbrook get the same type of reply?

Address not found

Your message wasn't delivered to xxxxx @broadplus.plus.com because the domain broadplus.plus.com couldn't be found. Check for typos or unnecessary spaces and try again.

No.

Please let go of this bounced email thing, it's not reliable in any way.

You have an email server your outbound emails go through. You send an email by handing it off to your outbound email server. It tries to deliver to plusnet (1), plusnet says "no one here" (2) and your outbound email server happens to be configured to tell you about it (3)

Shawbrook's outbound email server could go "oh, ok. nothing more to do here" at stage 2. If so there'll be no indication at Shawbrook that the email did not make it to the intended recipient.

This is just one mechanism where 550 codes (email rejections) may not result in a 'message could not be delivered' email relayed to the sender. There will be others too.

HUMBUG

booneruk said:

HUMBUG said:

When I send an email to my old plusnet webmail I get a return email saying  'Address Not Found' . Wouldn't Shawbrook get the same type of reply?

Address not found

Your message wasn't delivered to xxxxx @broadplus.plus.com because the domain broadplus.plus.com couldn't be found. Check for typos or unnecessary spaces and try again.

No.

Please let go of this bounced email thing, it's not reliable in any way.

You have an email server your outbound emails go through. You send an email by handing it off to your outbound email server. It tries to deliver to plusnet (1), plusnet says "no one here" (2) and your outbound email server happens to be configured to tell you about it (3)

Shawbrook's outbound email server could go "oh, ok. nothing more to do here" at stage 2. If so there'll be no indication at Shawbrook that the email did not make it to the intended recipient.

This is just one mechanism where 550 codes (email rejections) may not result in a 'message could not be delivered' email relayed to the sender. There will be others too.

Thanks but the issues I've raised now in writing to FOS is concentrating on:

1. The clause 6.3 vs 6.1  in their T&C's 
2.  FCA  ‘Consumer Duty Standard’ published in Sept 24  - relating to fair saving rates . 

All depends on the FOS case handler's point of view.

dosh37

I have also experienced issues with Shawbrook fixed rate ISA maturity:-

The account was due to mature on 21st April.

I received a reminder email on 14th April:-

"Remember that if we do not hear from you by 5pm on 17 April 2025, we’ll move your balance to a Matured Funds ISA Account earning 0.10% Gross/AER. You can move your money from this account at any time."

I sent them a secure message on the morning of 17th April to give my maturity instructions. I told them I had already instructed another savings provider to transfer the funds into a new ISA account.

Despite giving my maturity instructions before the deadline, Shawbrook moved the funds into the 0.1% matured account 4 days before the account actually reached maturity. The funds remained there earning virtually no interest for a few more days before eventually being transferred out.

OK, the interest lost may not be that significant but it's still annoying.