G24, The Quadrant, St.Albans - double dipping case.

hazelfoo

me again...

I have a double dipping case to deal with from the quadrant car park, st.albans, herts. This is G24 controlled. free entry, 3 hour time limit. They allege the car was their for 4 hours and 6 minutes. pcn was issued on march 7th for an allege breach on march 1st. 

 the reality is the car visited twice for 30 minutes or less each time. and I can prove it based on neighbours video door cameras, whatsapp messages and M&S digital receipts.

I have beaten one of these before, having it dismissed at the IAS stage. In this case I have been a bit late in replying. I am on the 28th day after the initial rejection. I thought I had until today to submit the appeal via IAS ? but their website says I am out of time. if you are being literal about it I guess i am - the rejection was received 28 days and 6 hours ago at 3 am! talk about an automated batch process eh? nobody at G24 is awake at 3 am . that is a machine dealing with those appeals.

Bizarrely I have been able to submit a second appeal via G24 own website - so we will see where that gets us. I suspect another 3am rejection by batch process.

I'll do a second comment with details of the charge notice and evidence.


I've read the newbies thread. given I am now past the 28 days period for IAS, and given the bouncing kangaroo like nature of that Adjudicator...

 I think I am now at the "wait for court" stage? which is ok. I'd quite like to stand in front of a judge about this. very strong evidence and I am learning loads about the judiciary, contract law and courts by standing up for myself!

I have already
- complained to my MP

- tried to trace the management of The Quadrant car park - i can try again but this seems harder than it should be. I can find the Directors for the car park management company on Companies house. Not sure where to go from there ?

- appealed once on G24 appealyourcharge.co.uk site and had it rejected.
- appealed a second time today within 28 days of the first rejection on www.appealyourcharge.co.uk 

So in terms of preparation and next steps if I read all the various threads I think I should do the following:

- print off all the images, evidence etc and file away somewhere? so that if this bounces back in several years time I have the evidence easily to hand? 

- possibly get signed statements from both neighbours? or them to sign the images of my car taken via their video cameras? the videos are date and timestamped and I have the recordings. 

- sign the petition (just done!)

- complain to the DVLA ? - I've seen threads here about breach of PPCCoP - there is a good comment from LDast here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6537800/parked-in-a-disabled-bay-no-ticket/p5 . My pcn states "Representations must be made in writing within 28 days from the date of this notice" - which is the issue date not the date of receipt. I believe that means I can complain to the DVLA about this ? 

- issue G24 data protection officer with a SAR? Can/ should I request all entries and exits for the weeks around March 1st? 

- issue what to DVLA ? i cant find it now but I saw a thread about asking the DVLA for the actual request that G24 made to the DVLA for the notice to keeper? 

I want to make sure I am prepared for any future court proceeding or precourt back and forth. 

What else should I be doing at this stage please? 

hazelfoo

This is the parking charge notice.


 and the reverse:


So I think the language around 28 days from the date of the notice is against their code of practice? it should be 28 days from receipt of the notice to keeper? which means I can complain to the DVLA?

Nellymoser

My you've done your homework!

What about complaint to G24 breach of CoP failed to carry out manual checks before requesting keeper details from DVLA and issuing pcn, didn't search for orphan images. 

I think it's a SAR to DVLA to see who and when your details were requested.

hazelfoo

In terms of timing I have

- in the morning messages to family whatsapp group saying what we are cooking and eating on the 1st and 2nd March. with recipes.
-13:42  a video from my neighbour of the car driving away. and the neighbour chatting to me beforehand.
14:14 - car enters car park - First entrance date/time on the PCN
14:34 - first receipt from M&S. Showing all the items in the recipes indicated earlier.
15:50-16:00 - date time stamped videos from both neighbours showing the car parked in the normal spot outside our house.
16:40 - a date / time stamped picture showing one of the recipes baked and ready. 
18:15  - second receipt from M&S 
18:20 - second exit from the car park that day - showing as the first exit on the charge notice. 

some pictures below. Only way for this to be better is if the number plate was visible on the images. but as door cameras they are not that detailed. They are about as good as the second exit picture from the ANPR ... its the blue hyundai. behind the silver S-MAx in first picture, in front of the blue Golf in second. Taken from left and right neighbours as looking out from our front door. 

That has to be enough for a judge right? 







and from whatsapp, heavily cropped because... this is a public forum and I dont have time to prepare them better

What we said we would bake, at 12:49 before going to the shops.


What we actually made and ate, with the ingredients bought from the first digital receipt above, while the car is magically still in the car park? ! 




That has to be enough right? otherwise our court system is broken. 

hazelfoo

Nellymoser said:

My you've done your homework!

What about complaint to G24 breach of CoP failed to carry out manual checks before requesting keeper details from DVLA and issuing pcn, didn't search for orphan images. 

I think it's a SAR to DVLA to see who and when your details were requested.

thanks Nelly.

I cannot stand bullies. To an unhealthy degree for myself at times. 

I had not thought about a complaint to G24 themselves. I will add that to the list. thanks.

Nellymoser

Yummy cakes! You've left VRM and pcn number showing on that image, think you can edit 

Jenni_D

Nellymoser said:

Yummy cakes! You've left VRM and pcn number showing on that image, think you can edit 

Agreed - that's what I came to post about. Take down the first photo and then re-add with the VRM and PCN ref covered (in all locations).

hazelfoo

reposted new image without VRM and PCN. thanks. I think I have got all the locations.

Nellymoser

Still showing - VRM in first sentence and pcn number at the bottom under payment advice.

hazelfoo

Nellymoser said:

Still showing - VRM in first sentence and pcn number at the bottom under payment advice.

have I got them all now? I think so but I thought that last time.

Coupon-mad

hazelfoo said:

I have a double dipping case to deal with from the quadrant car park, st.albans, herts. This is G24 controlled. free entry, 3 hour time limit. They allege the car was their for 4 hours and 6 minutes. pcn was issued on march 7th for an allege breach on march 1st. 

 the reality is the car visited twice for 30 minutes or less each time. and I can prove it based on neighbours video door cameras, whatsapp messages and M&S digital receipts.

This is the parking charge notice.

hazelfoo said:

In terms of timing I have

- in the morning messages to family whatsapp group saying what we are cooking and eating on the 1st and 2nd March. with recipes.
-13:42  a video from my neighbour of the car driving away. and the neighbour chatting to me beforehand.
14:14 - car enters car park - First entrance date/time on the PCN
14:34 - first receipt from M&S. Showing all the items in the recipes indicated earlier.
15:50-16:00 - date time stamped videos from both neighbours showing the car parked in the normal spot outside our house.
16:40 - a date / time stamped picture showing one of the recipes baked and ready. 
18:15  - second receipt from M&S 
18:20 - second exit from the car park that day - showing as the first exit on the charge notice. 

some pictures below. Only way for this to be better is if the number plate was visible on the images. but as door cameras they are not that detailed. They are about as good as the second exit picture from the ANPR ... its the blue hyundai. behind the silver S-MAx in first picture, in front of the blue Golf in second. Taken from left and right neighbours as looking out from our front door. 

That has to be enough for a judge right? 







and from whatsapp, heavily cropped because... this is a public forum and I dont have time to prepare them better

What we said we would bake, at 12:49 before going to the shops.


What we actually made and ate, with the ingredients bought from the first digital receipt above, while the car is magically still in the car park? ! 



That has to be enough right? otherwise our court system is broken. 

Great evidence. You'd win.

But do this to see it off, but make it a FORMAL COMPLAINT as well as the SAR:

- issue G24 data protection officer with a SAR? Can/ should I request all entries and exits for the weeks around March 1st? 

Then if they fail to cancel the PCN, report them to the ICO.