Patio done. Expensive tiles. Clean lines..BUT :😥

WIAWSNB

redjet said:

Just had our patio done. Two weeks of several people. 55£sqm tiles.
It's got clean lines and seems well done. Except
1 many many tiles have a hollow sound underneath. Builder says that in the tiles, he can lift to show me cement has stuck but will charge to relay. And they say they give a 2 yr guarantee. 
2 no slope.  Nada. Water pools in many areas.
Im fairly confident they're not going to volunteer to buy new tiles and fix the job for free.
Months of effort digging out, they did all the sub base, supposedly added some binder to each tile.. but I've no idea what options I have, if any.

It makes me truly despair when a tradesperson - especially one who is clearly 'generally' competent and does a decent job - carries out such basic errors. Why? Ohgawd, why?!

It's like a roofer who doesn't put a slope on a 'flat' roof - why on earth not?!

It hardly makes it a greater task to carry out, but - if you don't do this - the final outcome will almost certainly be compromised.

Redjet, do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance? If so, call them up for advice and guidance.

You need to know the exact tile that's been laid, and find out from the manufacturer/supplier how it should be installed, and which methods are not suitable.

CliveOfIndia

Bradden said:

FreeBear said:

CliveOfIndia said:

Bradden said:

The hollow sound is normally an indication of "dot n dab" which used to be more common but isn't the best way to lay them.

I'd go further than saying "not the best way" - it's an absolute cowboy way of laying them

Let's see what Paving Expert has to say on the matter..

The 'dollops of mortar' method, known as "spot bedding", "dab bedding" or "dot and dab" is not recommended. On public and commercial works, it is rarely, if ever, permitted. If a contractor is using this method, ask would they like a bucket of oats for their horses.

Having laid a patio myself (big 750x600mm slabs), a screed mortar base was both quick and easy to put down. Have not had any issues with rocking or hollow sounds. Do have one spot subject to pooling, but that is entirely my fault for not getting the fall correct.

Paving expert is referring to concrete/natural stone. The OP mentioned binder which made me wonder if they've had porcelain laid which isn't suitable for spot bedding.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, that Paving Expert article is agreeing with what I originally said - spot bedding is the wrong way of doing it anyway ?  Hence the "cowboy/bucket of oats" references.  So spot-bedding is just wrong, full stop, irrespective of what the tiles are made of ?

FreeBear

Bradden said:

FreeBear said:

CliveOfIndia said:

Bradden said:

The hollow sound is normally an indication of "dot n dab" which used to be more common but isn't the best way to lay them.

I'd go further than saying "not the best way" - it's an absolute cowboy way of laying them

Let's see what Paving Expert has to say on the matter..

The 'dollops of mortar' method, known as "spot bedding", "dab bedding" or "dot and dab" is not recommended. On public and commercial works, it is rarely, if ever, permitted. If a contractor is using this method, ask would they like a bucket of oats for their horses.

Having laid a patio myself (big 750x600mm slabs), a screed mortar base was both quick and easy to put down. Have not had any issues with rocking or hollow sounds. Do have one spot subject to pooling, but that is entirely my fault for not getting the fall correct.

Paving expert is referring to concrete/natural stone. The OP mentioned binder which made me wonder if they've had porcelain laid which isn't suitable for spot bedding.

You still don't want to be laying concrete or stone slabs on spot bedding. It is poor practice (frankly, the sign of a bodge job) and the pavers will eventually crack.

casper_gutman

CliveOfIndia said:

Bradden said:

FreeBear said:

CliveOfIndia said:

Bradden said:

The hollow sound is normally an indication of "dot n dab" which used to be more common but isn't the best way to lay them.

I'd go further than saying "not the best way" - it's an absolute cowboy way of laying them

Let's see what Paving Expert has to say on the matter..

The 'dollops of mortar' method, known as "spot bedding", "dab bedding" or "dot and dab" is not recommended. On public and commercial works, it is rarely, if ever, permitted. If a contractor is using this method, ask would they like a bucket of oats for their horses.

Having laid a patio myself (big 750x600mm slabs), a screed mortar base was both quick and easy to put down. Have not had any issues with rocking or hollow sounds. Do have one spot subject to pooling, but that is entirely my fault for not getting the fall correct.

Paving expert is referring to concrete/natural stone. The OP mentioned binder which made me wonder if they've had porcelain laid which isn't suitable for spot bedding.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, that Paving Expert article is agreeing with what I originally said - spot bedding is the wrong way of doing it anyway ?  Hence the "cowboy/bucket of oats" references.  So spot-bedding is just wrong, full stop, irrespective of what the tiles are made of ?

Well, your first clue was when they said that method "is not recommended". But the "bucket of oats" thing was another one, yeah. 🙂

GDB2222

redjet said:

DRP said:

What does builder say about drainage and the lack thereof?

Sent them a video. They are not responding.

As it looks like you may have to sue them, how did you pay for the job? Any of it on credit? 

redjet

GDB2222 said:

redjet said:

DRP said:

What does builder say about drainage and the lack thereof?

Sent them a video. They are not responding.

As it looks like you may have to sue them, how did you pay for the job? Any of it on credit? 

No. Some bank transfers to cover materials, mot and such. The rest was cash. Tiles were credit. Although not the sort of people you want to poke the tiger with. 

WIAWSNB

Redjet, do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance? If so, call them up for advice and guidance.

ChilliBob

We unfortunately had similar - decent porcelain from Bradstone, I think 65 sqm, and some bits are hollow sounding and rock too. We do have a 10 yr guarantee but I'm convinced they'd have some way to wiggle out of it!

redjet

WIAWSNB said:

Redjet, do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance? If so, call them up for advice and guidance.

Great idea. Thanks. I say they're not the sort to provoke as they offered a story of damaging property of someone who had withheld payment. Sadly they had come recommended too.

diveunderthebonnet

redjet said:

GDB2222 said:

redjet said:

DRP said:

What does builder say about drainage and the lack thereof?

Sent them a video. They are not responding.

As it looks like you may have to sue them, how did you pay for the job? Any of it on credit? 

No. Some bank transfers to cover materials, mot and such. The rest was cash. Tiles were credit. Although not the sort of people you want to poke the tiger with. 

I presume they are not the sort of people to complain to ,are they a bunch of heavy handed men or is it you do not like confrontation ,if the second get a family member or a friend to be there when you complain.