PCNs at Vantage Point from OPS. Help Required

corneius2020

Hello, I'm reasonably up to speed on the whole Newbies thread for this sort of thing but need a bit of advice of where to take my defence if possible. I have two invoices from OPS that have now been passed to BW Legal. I am waiting to the Court Notice in order to respond my case.

I used to use this car park all the time and have multiple receipts for parking there. On the two occasions in question I purchased parking after the grace period and have been invoiced £170 for each including their nonsense collection fees.

The thing is I genuinely never actually received these PCN's in the post. The first I've heard of them is from the debt collection agency asking for £170 each. I replied to both them and OPS stating as much, asking  to actually see the PCNs and stating that i could not appeal because I did not know they existed, They say they did post them and it's up to me to prove I didn't get them, but that is of course impossible. 

I have been down all the usual channels of writing to the landowner and my MP with no success.

I paid for a days parking on both occasions, but often have to leave to get phone signal or the stupid app doesn't work so must have gone over the grace period. The thing is I still havent even seen these PCNs despite multiple requests.

I plan to wait to the court letter as its my only opportunity to actually appeal to anyone, but do I even have a case? it just feels so wrong that they can do this. Not sure the best angle to go to plead my case! Help!

Thanks!

Nellymoser

Yes it's wrong you paid for parking. Dont worry about silly BW legal, it is impossible to prove you didn't receive the pcns but it's not impossible for the operator to prove they sent them. Have BW legal sent you the 30 day Letter of Claim? 

You have a case just like the people in the articles. You've seen all the publicity about the '5min to pay rule' 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2p57zdzw9o

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2040xy9yn6o

As you didn't receive pcns does DVLA hold your current address? Make sure the address is correct on your V5C you don't want a court claim going to an old address.

Coupon-mad

I used to use this car park all the time

Wow. You're the only one! That stinking dark hole of a scam car park? No locals I know ever go there. It's a well known scam site.

Are you saying you paid in full both times and left before expiry of the tickets or app expiry?

You've read the MSE article about the 5 minute rule being banned?

corneius2020

Thanks for replies, yes my address is correct. I paid for parking both times and left the car park before expiry, but apparently paid for the parking around 30 minutes after entering the car park, I cant remember why, likely no signal, no spaces or app playing up. I've read the 5 minute rule but I'm quite over this at half an hour. I've not had the letter of claim just yet but it should be here soon. Just wondering what my angle should be really

troublemaker22

Don’t get hung up over the number of minutes. If you paid the full tariff for the period of parking before driving off the site, the parking charge is an unenforceable penalty that is not saved by the exception established by the Supreme Court in the Beavis case. 

Nellymoser

You paid for parking and did not overstay. You should not be penalised for failures in the operator's paying systems.

https://www.derbyworld.co.uk/community/rip-off-private-parking-fines-needs-to-go-catherine-atkinson-mp-tells-parliament-4897790

Please consider supporting the parking petitions. We need the Govt to act we're sick hearing their verbal promises.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6595460/parking-petitions-x-7-on-uk-parliament-petitions-website

In preparation look at the Template Defence Announcement thread, it helps you defend.

troublemaker22

troublemaker22 said:

Don’t get hung up over the number of minutes. If you paid the full tariff for the period of parking before driving off the site, the parking charge is an unenforceable penalty that is not saved by the exception established by the Supreme Court in the Beavis case. 

Also,  even if you paid after driving off the site or didn’t pay at all, my reading of the Supreme Court judgements in Beavis is that the parking charge is always an unenforceable penalty in a tariff (as opposed to a free) carpark.  But as you paid in full before leaving, you have the strongest possible case. 

Coupon-mad

corneius2020 said:

Hello, I'm reasonably up to speed on the whole Newbies thread for this sort of thing but need a bit of advice of where to take my defence if possible. I have two invoices from OPS that have now been passed to BW Legal. I am waiting to the Court Notice in order to respond my case.

I used to use this car park all the time and have multiple receipts for parking there. On the two occasions in question I purchased parking after the grace period and have been invoiced £170 for each including their nonsense collection fees.

The thing is I genuinely never actually received these PCN's in the post. The first I've heard of them is from the debt collection agency asking for £170 each. I replied to both them and OPS stating as much, asking  to actually see the PCNs and stating that i could not appeal because I did not know they existed, They say they did post them and it's up to me to prove I didn't get them, but that is of course impossible. 

I have been down all the usual channels of writing to the landowner and my MP with no success.

I paid for a days parking on both occasions, but often have to leave to get phone signal or the stupid app doesn't work so must have gone over the grace period. The thing is I still havent even seen these PCNs despite multiple requests.

I plan to wait to the court letter as its my only opportunity to actually appeal to anyone, but do I even have a case? it just feels so wrong that they can do this. Not sure the best angle to go to plead my case! Help!

Thanks!

I used to use this car park all the time

Coupon-mad said:

Wow. You're the only one! That stinking dark hole of a scam car park? No locals I know ever go there. It's a well known scam site.

Are you saying you paid in full both times and left before expiry of the tickets or app expiry?

You've read the MSE article about the 5 minute rule being banned?

-------------------------------------

corneius2020 said:

Thanks for replies, yes my address is correct. I paid for parking both times and left the car park before expiry, but apparently paid for the parking around 30 minutes after entering the car park, I cant remember why, likely no signal, no spaces or app playing up.

I've read the 5 minute rule but I'm quite over this at half an hour. 

You've missed the point. The whole point of that ban is that there's NO TIME LIMIT AT ALL as long as you paid in full while on site.

Eloquently explained by @troublemaker22 above, who is a solicitor.

I am not convinced your V5C address is up to date though. You cannot have missed both PCNs and reminders x 2 from OPS unless your address was old. Did you get your logbook out and check for sure?

95Rollers

So when I won my case in court regarding this carpark - I was accused of being there for 23 minutes (when I was in fact double dipped) and wasted several minutes trying to pay by cash and unable to find a signal - so once I'd exhausted all options I left and parked elsewhere. The judge deemed my actions were reasonable and it wasn't my fault their equipment is crap. They haven't lost anything by you being there as you have paid and you fulfilled the obligation to pay for your parking thus causing them no loss.