Talk Talk Compensation Claim

Redslash2000

Hi There,

I've had an open complaint with talktalk now for a little while and wanted to know where you think I stand with this:

When I moved into my flat, we ordered a fibre package through talktalk to be installed at our flat.

Just before installation day, they apologised and said there will be a delay in getting the wifi set up as openreach needed to do some work in our area to allow talktalk to connect their services. Immediately I got in contact with talktalk to explain my frustration as I predominantly work from home and wifi is pretty crucial to me. They then apologised to me and told me that they would be giving me a months free service once the service had been connected, and that I qualify for the OFCOM automatic compensation scheme and I will receive around £6.10 per day of lost service.

I thought that was great, it's worth noting I was moving out from my parents and had there been no wifi, I probably would have put off moving for a couple months as the flat is owned by my girlfriend, and therefore wouldn't have needed to incur any costs if I stayed home with my parents for an extra couple of months while the wifi situation was being sorted. However, as they stated I would be compensated, I took the choice to move in immediately and purchase a temporary wifi solution (one of those 5g boxes) out of my own pocket as I was excited to move out and just wanted to be in the flat to be honest!

Whilst we were waiting for the service to be installed, I would check in with talktalk every couple of weeks just to get any updates/estimated time until our service was installed, and also to check everything with the compensation was in line (which I was told at least on 3 separate occasions that it was).

We get to the date of installation (around 70 days from the original date) and I message them to confirm my wifi is now working, and when I can expect my compensation to be calculated/paid. The agent responds and says that all is well, and he has processed the claim and they will be in touch within 90 days to confirm an amount/repayment. I again thought that was great and went on with my life for another month and didn't think much of it.

After about a month, I thought I'd better check in with the compensation team again just to check everything was smooth as in my head, it almost seemed too good to be true that I would be receiving ~£400 out of nowhere. To my (kind of) surprise, they turned around and told me that I was not eligible for the OFCOM delay repayment scheme as Openreach hadn't actually confirmed the appointment so I didn't qualify. They hadn't communicated this to me, and it took me messaging them to find this out (I could have waited another 60 days or so for the 90 to conclude before hearing this). I of course had a bit of an issue with this, especially after taking the decision to stay with talktalk and move into the flat as a result of expectation of compensation. They then offered an extra month of free service (2 months now in total) as a sorry which I intend to also refuse.

I just wanted to know where people think I stand with this, doing my own research I would agree that I was not eligible for the compensation scheme, however since I was told on 3 or 4 occasions (that I went out of my way to check) that I would be receiving the compensation, I feel like it is not really my issue as I think it's pretty reasonable for me to trust the multiple agents who told me otherwise. I would have delayed my move into this flat had I known that I wouldn't be getting any compensation so I feel the least they can do is get very close to that figure to atleast cover some of my costs (such as temporary wifi).

Many thanks!

MattMattMattUK

Redslash2000 said:

Hi There,

I've had an open complaint with talktalk now for a little while and wanted to know where you think I stand with this:

When I moved into my flat, we ordered a fibre package through talktalk to be installed at our flat.

Just before installation day, they apologised and said there will be a delay in getting the wifi set up as openreach needed to do some work in our area to allow talktalk to connect their services. Immediately I got in contact with talktalk to explain my frustration as I predominantly work from home and wifi is pretty crucial to me. They then apologised to me and told me that they would be giving me a months free service once the service had been connected, and that I qualify for the OFCOM automatic compensation scheme and I will receive around £6.10 per day of lost service.

I thought that was great, it's worth noting I was moving out from my parents and had there been no wifi, I probably would have put off moving for a couple months as the flat is owned by my girlfriend, and therefore wouldn't have needed to incur any costs if I stayed home with my parents for an extra couple of months while the wifi situation was being sorted. However, as they stated I would be compensated, I took the choice to move in immediately and purchase a temporary wifi solution (one of those 5g boxes) out of my own pocket as I was excited to move out and just wanted to be in the flat to be honest!

Whilst we were waiting for the service to be installed, I would check in with talktalk every couple of weeks just to get any updates/estimated time until our service was installed, and also to check everything with the compensation was in line (which I was told at least on 3 separate occasions that it was).

We get to the date of installation (around 70 days from the original date) and I message them to confirm my wifi is now working, and when I can expect my compensation to be calculated/paid. The agent responds and says that all is well, and he has processed the claim and they will be in touch within 90 days to confirm an amount/repayment. I again thought that was great and went on with my life for another month and didn't think much of it.

After about a month, I thought I'd better check in with the compensation team again just to check everything was smooth as in my head, it almost seemed too good to be true that I would be receiving ~£400 out of nowhere. To my (kind of) surprise, they turned around and told me that I was not eligible for the OFCOM delay repayment scheme as Openreach hadn't actually confirmed the appointment so I didn't qualify. They hadn't communicated this to me, and it took me messaging them to find this out (I could have waited another 60 days or so for the 90 to conclude before hearing this). I of course had a bit of an issue with this, especially after taking the decision to stay with talktalk and move into the flat as a result of expectation of compensation. They then offered an extra month of free service (2 months now in total) as a sorry which I intend to also refuse.

I just wanted to know where people think I stand with this, doing my own research I would agree that I was not eligible for the compensation scheme, however since I was told on 3 or 4 occasions (that I went out of my way to check) that I would be receiving the compensation, I feel like it is not really my issue as I think it's pretty reasonable for me to trust the multiple agents who told me otherwise. I would have delayed my move into this flat had I known that I wouldn't be getting any compensation so I feel the least they can do is get very close to that figure to atleast cover some of my costs (such as temporary wifi).

Many thanks!

Take the two free months and carry on with life. 

A Mifi dongle thing should have cost you less than the cost of those two months, or you could have just tethered from your phone and that would have cost you nothing. 

iniltous

There are two elements of compensation , Openreach are not your provider, but are responsible to TT for any failure to hit agreed contractual dates and pay compensation for contractual failure , however often with FTTP , especially in complicated environments like flats , where permission may be needed from third parties not just the occupant of the flat , OR have a two stage installation process, the first stage date is not a contractual date , it’s basically a survey date looking at putting  in place what’s required , permits, possible cabling etc . and once that’s done a second contractual date is given to the ISP and you get that from the ISP , it’s only if that second date is missed that OR pay the ISP compensation , you obviously should get told by the ISP , Talk Talk in your case , the first date is just to ‘have a look’ , you won’t necessarily get service on this date , once OR put in place anything that’s required, they give TT a new contractual date , and TT should contact you again and say ‘this is the proper appointment/contractual date we are now bound by’  or words to that effect.

Your  ‘contract’ is with the ISP not Openreach and not dependent on the terms between the ISP and OR , often  though ISP basically look at compensation as money given to them by Openreach for failure that they pass some of it on to the consumer….but that’s not really the way it should work, there can be situations where OR are not a fault, especially if the ISP gives their customer the wrong information regarding dates .

I’d suggest what’s happened here is that your address was always a 2 stage address , TT should have made it clear to you that the initial date was advisory and not contractual , that’s TT failure not Openreach, and TT employees shouldn’t have mentioned compensation to you , when the second stage ‘proper’ date was provided to TT by Openreach your service providers should have said ‘right this  is your new contractual date ‘ , you think you are entitled to compensation because of what TT told you initially , they only want to pay out to you if  OR will pay them , so if  OR turn around and say no compensation to TT because the first date was always advisory, TT will try and get out of paying you, even though they didn’t properly explain the way the two date system works .

As far a going forward, TT have offered you something, if you decline and take it further it then becomes tricky , if TT say OR never said the first date was advisory and they thought you were a single stage job , it then becomes a legal issue between TT and OR , not really involving you directly, if TT ‘win’ that case they may reconsider your compensation, if OR did nothing wrong they don’t pay TT , although you are still potentially due compensation if TT  made a mistake in what they told you they won’t be in a hurry to offer anything more than what’s already on offer .

To take it further you would need to pursue TT  via the industry complaint resolution body , you , me and anyone else reading this can’t possibly know if TT were told the wrong thing by OR , or TT just told you something that was always wrong , or you misunderstood what you were told , at the moment OR presumably are saying they told TT the correct information regarding dates , so are not responsible for potential TT mistakes, strictly speaking you are due compensation from TT irrespective of anything between OR and TT , if they told you the first date was contractual, but I’d suggest they will say they never said the first date was anything other than advisory and you would have to prove they said it was an appointment , it may suck but I think unless you really get stuck into them , you won’t get anything else 

Redslash2000

MattMattMattUK said:

Redslash2000 said:

Hi There,

I've had an open complaint with talktalk now for a little while and wanted to know where you think I stand with this:

When I moved into my flat, we ordered a fibre package through talktalk to be installed at our flat.

Just before installation day, they apologised and said there will be a delay in getting the wifi set up as openreach needed to do some work in our area to allow talktalk to connect their services. Immediately I got in contact with talktalk to explain my frustration as I predominantly work from home and wifi is pretty crucial to me. They then apologised to me and told me that they would be giving me a months free service once the service had been connected, and that I qualify for the OFCOM automatic compensation scheme and I will receive around £6.10 per day of lost service.

I thought that was great, it's worth noting I was moving out from my parents and had there been no wifi, I probably would have put off moving for a couple months as the flat is owned by my girlfriend, and therefore wouldn't have needed to incur any costs if I stayed home with my parents for an extra couple of months while the wifi situation was being sorted. However, as they stated I would be compensated, I took the choice to move in immediately and purchase a temporary wifi solution (one of those 5g boxes) out of my own pocket as I was excited to move out and just wanted to be in the flat to be honest!

Whilst we were waiting for the service to be installed, I would check in with talktalk every couple of weeks just to get any updates/estimated time until our service was installed, and also to check everything with the compensation was in line (which I was told at least on 3 separate occasions that it was).

We get to the date of installation (around 70 days from the original date) and I message them to confirm my wifi is now working, and when I can expect my compensation to be calculated/paid. The agent responds and says that all is well, and he has processed the claim and they will be in touch within 90 days to confirm an amount/repayment. I again thought that was great and went on with my life for another month and didn't think much of it.

After about a month, I thought I'd better check in with the compensation team again just to check everything was smooth as in my head, it almost seemed too good to be true that I would be receiving ~£400 out of nowhere. To my (kind of) surprise, they turned around and told me that I was not eligible for the OFCOM delay repayment scheme as Openreach hadn't actually confirmed the appointment so I didn't qualify. They hadn't communicated this to me, and it took me messaging them to find this out (I could have waited another 60 days or so for the 90 to conclude before hearing this). I of course had a bit of an issue with this, especially after taking the decision to stay with talktalk and move into the flat as a result of expectation of compensation. They then offered an extra month of free service (2 months now in total) as a sorry which I intend to also refuse.

I just wanted to know where people think I stand with this, doing my own research I would agree that I was not eligible for the compensation scheme, however since I was told on 3 or 4 occasions (that I went out of my way to check) that I would be receiving the compensation, I feel like it is not really my issue as I think it's pretty reasonable for me to trust the multiple agents who told me otherwise. I would have delayed my move into this flat had I known that I wouldn't be getting any compensation so I feel the least they can do is get very close to that figure to atleast cover some of my costs (such as temporary wifi).

Many thanks!

Take the two free months and carry on with life. 

A Mifi dongle thing should have cost you less than the cost of those two months, or you could have just tethered from your phone and that would have cost you nothing. 

I needed the mifi for 3 months, it was about £32 per month and my mother had one lying around so luckily didn’t have to pay for the unit. I couldn’t tether from my phone as the signal was shocking with my provider and could barely get 3G in the flat. Was only possible to work from the dongle.

Ultimately the compensation isn’t that big of a deal, but I figured it’s best to try your luck where you can if it isn’t going to cause any stress. 

Redslash2000

iniltous said:

There are two elements of compensation , Openreach are not your provider, but are responsible to TT for any failure to hit agreed contractual dates and pay compensation for contractual failure , however often with FTTP , especially in complicated environments like flats , where permission may be needed from third parties not just the occupant of the flat , OR have a two stage installation process, the first stage date is not a contractual date , it’s basically a survey date looking at putting  in place what’s required , permits, possible cabling etc . and once that’s done a second contractual date is given to the ISP and you get that from the ISP , it’s only if that second date is missed that OR pay the ISP compensation , you obviously should get told by the ISP , Talk Talk in your case , the first date is just to ‘have a look’ , you won’t necessarily get service on this date , once OR put in place anything that’s required, they give TT a new contractual date , and TT should contact you again and say ‘this is the proper appointment/contractual date we are now bound by’  or words to that effect.

Your  ‘contract’ is with the ISP not Openreach and not dependent on the terms between the ISP and OR , often  though ISP basically look at compensation as money given to them by Openreach for failure that they pass some of it on to the consumer….but that’s not really the way it should work, there can be situations where OR are not a fault, especially if the ISP gives their customer the wrong information regarding dates .

I’d suggest what’s happened here is that your address was always a 2 stage address , TT should have made it clear to you that the initial date was advisory and not contractual , that’s TT failure not Openreach, and TT employees shouldn’t have mentioned compensation to you , when the second stage ‘proper’ date was provided to TT by Openreach your service providers should have said ‘right this  is your new contractual date ‘ , you think you are entitled to compensation because of what TT told you initially , they only want to pay out to you if  OR will pay them , so if  OR turn around and say no compensation to TT because the first date was always advisory, TT will try and get out of paying you, even though they didn’t properly explain the way the two date system works .

As far a going forward, TT have offered you something, if you decline and take it further it then becomes tricky , if TT say OR never said the first date was advisory and they thought you were a single stage job , it then becomes a legal issue between TT and OR , not really involving you directly, if TT ‘win’ that case they may reconsider your compensation, if OR did nothing wrong they don’t pay TT , although you are still potentially due compensation if TT  made a mistake in what they told you they won’t be in a hurry to offer anything more than what’s already on offer .

To take it further you would need to pursue TT  via the industry complaint resolution body , you , me and anyone else reading this can’t possibly know if TT were told the wrong thing by OR , or TT just told you something that was always wrong , or you misunderstood what you were told , at the moment OR presumably are saying they told TT the correct information regarding dates , so are not responsible for potential TT mistakes, strictly speaking you are due compensation from TT irrespective of anything between OR and TT , if they told you the first date was contractual, but I’d suggest they will say they never said the first date was anything other than advisory and you would have to prove they said it was an appointment , it may suck but I think unless you really get stuck into them , you won’t get anything else 

So the email I got for the original appointment in November was to tell me that my appointment had been confirmed and an openreach engineer will be in attendance to connect my services between 8-1. I was then told just before this date that there was an issue with my order and they will get back to me with further updates. 

I personally believe that they’ve mucked up and openreach are probably not going to pay them out and they are trying to cut their losses. As you said, no way of knowing this but I can only go by on what I was told. 

Redslash2000

Redslash2000 said:

iniltous said:

There are two elements of compensation , Openreach are not your provider, but are responsible to TT for any failure to hit agreed contractual dates and pay compensation for contractual failure , however often with FTTP , especially in complicated environments like flats , where permission may be needed from third parties not just the occupant of the flat , OR have a two stage installation process, the first stage date is not a contractual date , it’s basically a survey date looking at putting  in place what’s required , permits, possible cabling etc . and once that’s done a second contractual date is given to the ISP and you get that from the ISP , it’s only if that second date is missed that OR pay the ISP compensation , you obviously should get told by the ISP , Talk Talk in your case , the first date is just to ‘have a look’ , you won’t necessarily get service on this date , once OR put in place anything that’s required, they give TT a new contractual date , and TT should contact you again and say ‘this is the proper appointment/contractual date we are now bound by’  or words to that effect.

Your  ‘contract’ is with the ISP not Openreach and not dependent on the terms between the ISP and OR , often  though ISP basically look at compensation as money given to them by Openreach for failure that they pass some of it on to the consumer….but that’s not really the way it should work, there can be situations where OR are not a fault, especially if the ISP gives their customer the wrong information regarding dates .

I’d suggest what’s happened here is that your address was always a 2 stage address , TT should have made it clear to you that the initial date was advisory and not contractual , that’s TT failure not Openreach, and TT employees shouldn’t have mentioned compensation to you , when the second stage ‘proper’ date was provided to TT by Openreach your service providers should have said ‘right this  is your new contractual date ‘ , you think you are entitled to compensation because of what TT told you initially , they only want to pay out to you if  OR will pay them , so if  OR turn around and say no compensation to TT because the first date was always advisory, TT will try and get out of paying you, even though they didn’t properly explain the way the two date system works .

As far a going forward, TT have offered you something, if you decline and take it further it then becomes tricky , if TT say OR never said the first date was advisory and they thought you were a single stage job , it then becomes a legal issue between TT and OR , not really involving you directly, if TT ‘win’ that case they may reconsider your compensation, if OR did nothing wrong they don’t pay TT , although you are still potentially due compensation if TT  made a mistake in what they told you they won’t be in a hurry to offer anything more than what’s already on offer .

To take it further you would need to pursue TT  via the industry complaint resolution body , you , me and anyone else reading this can’t possibly know if TT were told the wrong thing by OR , or TT just told you something that was always wrong , or you misunderstood what you were told , at the moment OR presumably are saying they told TT the correct information regarding dates , so are not responsible for potential TT mistakes, strictly speaking you are due compensation from TT irrespective of anything between OR and TT , if they told you the first date was contractual, but I’d suggest they will say they never said the first date was anything other than advisory and you would have to prove they said it was an appointment , it may suck but I think unless you really get stuck into them , you won’t get anything else 

So the email I got for the original appointment in November was to tell me that my appointment had been confirmed and an openreach engineer will be in attendance to connect my services between 8-1. I was then told just before this date that there was an issue with my order and they will get back to me with further updates. 

I personally believe that they’ve mucked up and openreach are probably not going to pay them out and they are trying to cut their losses. As you said, no way of knowing this but I can only go by on what I was told. 

Also, just to add on this. We had to message the leaseholder to get permission to get the wifi as there was a small amount of drilling involved, however it turns out all of the work for FTTP had already been done for everyone within my flat block already. 

Just from speaking to neighbours there were 2 within my block that already had FTTP in place and all of the infrastructure was there in the building for them to do this work in the first place (also confirmed by the leaseholder) so I’m not sure why there even was a delay in the first place. Maybe their systems weren’t up to date?

iniltous

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome

You could try this checker site that gives the type of installation (KCI2 or single stage ) and if there are any foreseeable issues , the example shown is ‘no anticipated issues’ .

TBH , if TT contacted you before the appointment/installation date you were originally given to tell you of a problem or delay , and that the date no longer is valid , then its a grey area as if that now a failed date , you were told beforehand, and therefore does it have any relevance as far as compensation is concerned ?   , it’s not unreasonable if you were given an unrealistic date in the first place ,and  the error is realised and the date cancelled , with a ‘ sorry , unforeseen issues means we need to cancel , and re book for later when the issues are resolved’  it does seems unfair for them  to be held to that original date , so I can see why they would say you don’t have a valid compensation claim 

The info you need to look at is this 

Featured Products	Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)	Upstream Line Rate (Mbps)	Downstream Range (Mbps)	Availability Date	FTTP Install Process
WBC FTTP	Up to 1000	Up to 220	--	Available	KCI2 Assure

Other Offerings	Availability Date
VDSL Multicast	Available

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

If the block of flats were prefitted with FTTP before opening the addresses to ISPs for them to make an order on behalf of their customer , thats the normal process , usually all that’s required in MDUs is a short optical cable run from outside the flat where the connection point was fitted  (in a corridor outside the front door for example ) to inside the flat ,so if the FTTP network had been fitted to outside your flat , and it was ready for service , then  all the permits, wayleaves  were already agreed  before that network first fit was installed, so seems odd to then have a delay , that doesn’t make much sense.

Redslash2000

iniltous said:

You could try this checker site that gives the type of installation (KCI2 or single stage ) and if there are any foreseeable issues , the example shown is ‘no anticipated issues’ .

TBH , if TT contacted you before the appointment/installation date you were originally given to tell you of a problem or delay , and that the date no longer is valid , then its a grey area as if that now a failed date , you were told beforehand, and therefore does it have any relevance as far as compensation is concerned ?   , it’s not unreasonable if you were given an unrealistic date in the first place ,and  the error is realised and the date cancelled , with a ‘ sorry , unforeseen issues means we need to cancel , and re book for later when the issues are resolved’  it does seems unfair for them  to be held to that original date , so I can see why they would say you don’t have a valid compensation claim 

The info you need to look at is this 

Featured Products	Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)	Upstream Line Rate (Mbps)	Downstream Range (Mbps)	Availability Date	FTTP Install Process
WBC FTTP	Up to 1000	Up to 220	--	Available	KCI2 Assure

Other Offerings	Availability Date
VDSL Multicast	Available

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

If the block of flats were prefitted with FTTP before opening the addresses to ISPs for them to make an order on behalf of their customer , thats the normal process , usually all that’s required in MDUs is a short optical cable run from outside the flat where the connection point was fitted  (in a corridor outside the front door for example ) to inside the flat ,so if the FTTP network had been fitted to outside your flat , and it was ready for service , then  all the permits, wayleaves  were already agreed  before that network first fit was installed, so seems odd to then have a delay , that doesn’t make much sense.

Here's a snippet from my address:

Featured Products	Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)	Upstream Line Rate (Mbps)	Downstream Range (Mbps)	Availability Date	FTTP Install Process
WBC FTTP	Up to 1000	Up to 220	--	Available	1 Stage

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Multi Dwelling Unit Residential MDU No Anticipated Issues.

Yeah, exactly as you've said all the front doors within my block of flats have a little white box above them which all the engineer did when they came over was pass the cable straight through and setup the router in our kitchen. All the cables were already in the box above the door and it looked a straight forward job for them. As I said before the leaseholder confirmed with us that all prior infrastructure was there for us to just order fibre internet and there should be no issues.

Yeah, I can see it from their point of view as well, but when they told me there was an issue they were very clear that I would receive the compensation and it seems very clear on Ofcom's website that if they do not start the service on the agreed date, or the appointment is missed, compensation would begin automatically from the date it was due to start. I understand there is a technicality to it that probably means I'm not owed, but I don't feel like there was much more I could have done from my end to be assured it was due to me.

I think my main problem lies with the fact I was told about compensation incorrectly and I feel it influenced my decision to stay with them which turned out to be a bad/costly decision in the end. I also took a particular dislike to their customer service during all of this because there were a couple of times where they've been due to call me and haven't done so, therefore it just felt horribly managed from my POV.

It's probably unlikely I get much more than what I have already been offered (2 months free service) as the total value of the compensation I'm chasing is probably more than they would ever get out of me as a customer anyway, and my claim is a bit woolly.

400ixl

Make a formal complaint and then get a deadlock letter if you want to take it to the ombudsman.

TalkTalk are already one of the most complained about ISP's, unfortunately your experience is no surprise.

iniltous

The checker ( although we can only assume it was the same back when your order was accepted ) , does indicate a straightforward installation, so possible reasons for the delay .
 Openreach were premature in showing FTTP available, the local network within the MDU may have been done but perhaps the ‘spine’ network wasn’t ready , that is an Openreach error but one where OR potentially have to compensate ISPs  that were inadvertently told they could order service , or equally possible,
Talk Talk , who use Openreach FTTP  but also use their own ‘backhaul’ to get from the Openreach FTTP headend equipment into their own network , if this backhaul were not ready , that’s entirely TT responsibility, and OR wouldn’t be liable , it’s impossible to know with the information currently available.