Taking dealership to Fast Track court

Ayr_Rage

pinkshoes said:

sweaty_doughnut said:

powerful_Rogue said:

pinkshoes said:

How many miles have you done in the car during the 14 month ownership? Are you still driving it?

This is the important question.

It's 5 months and only essential travel (3500 miles) as I have had a baby born at 28 weeks. I told them that I have to use it under protest until they take it back as I couldn't work on arranging another car when I was in NICU most of the time.

So you have NOT rejected the car. You have carried on using it which means acceptance.

And this fault seems to be in dispute,  but by continuing to drive the car it is giving the implication that the car is fine to use, so no fault.

Even your own independent report stated a slight crunchiness with the gear box. You then declined giving the garage the opportunity to look at this themselves.

Just be VERY careful throwing good money after bad. 

If this went to court I am not sure you'd win as you cannot reject a car for a fault but keep driving it for 3500 miles!!!!! That's ridiculous!

Agreed.

If the cutting out and gearbox issues had been so serious as to endanger the OP then the vehicle should have been dumped back at the supplier's premises and really rejected.

It is obviously usable and not unsafe as it has been driven 3,500 miles over 5 months.

IMHO legal action is futile, the best you can hope for is resolution with the supplier and/or manufacturer.

born_again

sweaty_doughnut said:

There is no finance involved, it was cash purchase. The way I see the situation is that Hyundai is on purpose dragging the process to make me give up. First time they said bring it to us when I rejected, then after inspection they said due to no issue they are not taking it back. Afterwards I hired an independent after which Hyundai said we want another inspection, while dealership said go via the Motor Ombudsman. Let's say I stopped using the car, they claim there is no fault despite the evidence and will not come to collect it. As some have suggested I should have left the garbage on their premise or I could have let it rust on my driveway and if I don't manage to return it I end up with huge expense, garbage car that I didn't drive plus paying for few months of rental.

Rejection is via dealer you bought from. Not Hyundai. As Hyundai dealers are franchises.

As a aside does car have engine stop/start at junctions?

QrizB

Noting all the comments on CRA and 45p/mile etc. I was however referring to the OPs claim that:

"If dealership was going to sell the car they can easily sell it for £24.5k".

I even quoted that paragraph!

sweaty_doughnut

I have always said to the dealership that issues are intermittent, the car is not falling apart but its value is affected signifiantly and brand new car should not have any crunchines! Brand new must be flawless. I have provided Hyundai now another chance to inapect it. I have recorded the audio with the inspecting engineer - on two occasions that he has experienced the issue he has avoided to comment and said he will speak with the technician because he thinks it's just the linkeage. What linkrage feeling on a brand new car.  If you people accept this kind of stuff that easily I will happily sell you my car. Hyundai doensn't insist for no reason that you are not present during diagnostics at the parking lot, that way they can claim it works as expected. I asked Hyundai to provide a signsture that the car is faultless so I can sell iy on carwow without having to report anything.

sweaty_doughnut

born_again said:

sweaty_doughnut said:

There is no finance involved, it was cash purchase. The way I see the situation is that Hyundai is on purpose dragging the process to make me give up. First time they said bring it to us when I rejected, then after inspection they said due to no issue they are not taking it back. Afterwards I hired an independent after which Hyundai said we want another inspection, while dealership said go via the Motor Ombudsman. Let's say I stopped using the car, they claim there is no fault despite the evidence and will not come to collect it. As some have suggested I should have left the garbage on their premise or I could have let it rust on my driveway and if I don't manage to return it I end up with huge expense, garbage car that I didn't drive plus paying for few months of rental.

Rejection is via dealer you bought from. Not Hyundai. As Hyundai dealers are franchises.

As a aside does car have engine stop/start at junctions?

I dont use stop/start feature but stalling and RPM issue (car shakes as the engine can't go over 300 RPM) is happening only when you start the car while it is warmed up.

sweaty_doughnut

Ayr_Rage said:

pinkshoes said:

sweaty_doughnut said:

powerful_Rogue said:

pinkshoes said:

How many miles have you done in the car during the 14 month ownership? Are you still driving it?

This is the important question.

It's 5 months and only essential travel (3500 miles) as I have had a baby born at 28 weeks. I told them that I have to use it under protest until they take it back as I couldn't work on arranging another car when I was in NICU most of the time.

So you have NOT rejected the car. You have carried on using it which means acceptance.

And this fault seems to be in dispute,  but by continuing to drive the car it is giving the implication that the car is fine to use, so no fault.

Even your own independent report stated a slight crunchiness with the gear box. You then declined giving the garage the opportunity to look at this themselves.

Just be VERY careful throwing good money after bad. 

If this went to court I am not sure you'd win as you cannot reject a car for a fault but keep driving it for 3500 miles!!!!! That's ridiculous!

Agreed.

If the cutting out and gearbox issues had been so serious as to endanger the OP then the vehicle should have been dumped back at the supplier's premises and really rejected.

It is obviously usable and not unsafe as it has been driven 3,500 miles over 5 months.

IMHO legal action is futile, the best you can hope for is resolution with the supplier and/or manufacturer.

Manufacturer is worse than supplier.

Aylesbury_Duck

sweaty_doughnut said:

I have always said to the dealership that issues are intermittent, the car is not falling apart but its value is affected signifiantly and brand new car should not have any crunchines! Brand new must be flawless. I have provided Hyundai now another chance to inapect it. I have recorded the audio with the inspecting engineer - on two occasions that he has experienced the issue he has avoided to comment and said he will speak with the technician because he thinks it's just the linkeage. What linkrage feeling on a brand new car.  If you people accept this kind of stuff that easily I will happily sell you my car. Hyundai doensn't insist for no reason that you are not present during diagnostics at the parking lot, that way they can claim it works as expected. I asked Hyundai to provide a signsture that the car is faultless so I can sell iy on carwow without having to report anything.

A brand new car shouldn't have any faults, and that's why any significant faults would be a reason to reject the car in the first 30 days.  Gearbox problems would probably be a justifiable reason for short term rejection.  The problem is that you didn't do that, and five months and 3,500 miles on, your chance to reject it for a full refund has gone.  By your own admission the convenience of continuing to use the car has been more important than sorting out the problem, which you reported in the first two weeks of owning it, so it's perhaps unsurprising the dealer has taken the stance they have.  From their point of view, you may have exacerbated what was a minor gearbox problem by continuing to use it - who knows what additional damage you've done in those 3,500 additional miles of crunching the gears?  It may be impossible to tell what was an inherent fault and what is user-generated damage.

Your views on whether Hyundai (is it Hyundai, or are you referring to the dealer?) are engaged in some sort of conspiracy are irrelevant.  What's relevant are your consumer rights.  I'm not surprised the dealer isn't being particularly forthcoming when talking to you if you're recording them.  

sweaty_doughnut

Aylesbury_Duck said:

sweaty_doughnut said:

I have always said to the dealership that issues are intermittent, the car is not falling apart but its value is affected signifiantly and brand new car should not have any crunchines! Brand new must be flawless. I have provided Hyundai now another chance to inapect it. I have recorded the audio with the inspecting engineer - on two occasions that he has experienced the issue he has avoided to comment and said he will speak with the technician because he thinks it's just the linkeage. What linkrage feeling on a brand new car.  If you people accept this kind of stuff that easily I will happily sell you my car. Hyundai doensn't insist for no reason that you are not present during diagnostics at the parking lot, that way they can claim it works as expected. I asked Hyundai to provide a signsture that the car is faultless so I can sell iy on carwow without having to report anything.

A brand new car shouldn't have any faults, and that's why any significant faults would be a reason to reject the car in the first 30 days.  Gearbox problems would probably be a justifiable reason for short term rejection.  The problem is that you didn't do that, and five months and 3,500 miles on, your chance to reject it for a full refund has gone.  By your own admission the convenience of continuing to use the car has been more important than sorting out the problem, which you reported in the first two weeks of owning it, so it's perhaps unsurprising the dealer has taken the stance they have.  From their point of view, you may have exacerbated what was a minor gearbox problem by continuing to use it - who knows what additional damage you've done in those 3,500 additional miles of crunching the gears?  It may be impossible to tell what was an inherent fault and what is user-generated damage.

Your views on whether Hyundai (is it Hyundai, or are you referring to the dealer?) are engaged in some sort of conspiracy are irrelevant.  What's relevant are your consumer rights.  I'm not surprised the dealer isn't being particularly forthcoming when talking to you if you're recording them.  

I said to dealership that I dont want to be blamed later if the issue progresses. They claimed there is no issue on first inspection, which was 45 days after purchase. Do I really need to fight tooth and nail to convince a mechanic that there is a problem. For this reason I hired an independent.

I think fast track is bad for both sides. They cant be sure they will win it with the evidence that the car had issues and that I had to use the vehicle until they accept it back due to family emergency. Was I supposed to buy one more car while I deal with dodgy dealer.

I posted here because I wanted to see if someone have had an experience with fast track not to have to justify myself to people who never went through the process.

Aylesbury_Duck

sweaty_doughnut said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

sweaty_doughnut said:

I have always said to the dealership that issues are intermittent, the car is not falling apart but its value is affected signifiantly and brand new car should not have any crunchines! Brand new must be flawless. I have provided Hyundai now another chance to inapect it. I have recorded the audio with the inspecting engineer - on two occasions that he has experienced the issue he has avoided to comment and said he will speak with the technician because he thinks it's just the linkeage. What linkrage feeling on a brand new car.  If you people accept this kind of stuff that easily I will happily sell you my car. Hyundai doensn't insist for no reason that you are not present during diagnostics at the parking lot, that way they can claim it works as expected. I asked Hyundai to provide a signsture that the car is faultless so I can sell iy on carwow without having to report anything.

A brand new car shouldn't have any faults, and that's why any significant faults would be a reason to reject the car in the first 30 days.  Gearbox problems would probably be a justifiable reason for short term rejection.  The problem is that you didn't do that, and five months and 3,500 miles on, your chance to reject it for a full refund has gone.  By your own admission the convenience of continuing to use the car has been more important than sorting out the problem, which you reported in the first two weeks of owning it, so it's perhaps unsurprising the dealer has taken the stance they have.  From their point of view, you may have exacerbated what was a minor gearbox problem by continuing to use it - who knows what additional damage you've done in those 3,500 additional miles of crunching the gears?  It may be impossible to tell what was an inherent fault and what is user-generated damage.

Your views on whether Hyundai (is it Hyundai, or are you referring to the dealer?) are engaged in some sort of conspiracy are irrelevant.  What's relevant are your consumer rights.  I'm not surprised the dealer isn't being particularly forthcoming when talking to you if you're recording them.  

I said to dealership that I dont want to be blamed later if the issue progresses. They claimed there is no issue on first inspection, which was 45 days after purchase. Do I really need to fight tooth and nail to convince a mechanic that there is a problem. For this reason I hired an independent.

I think fast track is bad for both sides. They cant be sure they will win it with the evidence that the car had issues and that I had to use the vehicle until they accept it back due to family emergency. Was I supposed to buy one more car while I deal with dodgy dealer.

No, you shouldn't have to fight tooth and nail.  Consumer rights legislation says that any fault occurring in the first six months was assumed to have been present at purchase and is for the seller to sort out.  I'm not saying the dealer has behaved correctly here, but I can see the contradiction of you continuing to use the car after you supposedly rejected it, and continuing to use it because it's convenient to you.  The family situation, while difficult, has no bearing on your consumer rights.  It didn't stop the clock running on the first 30 days.

Court action should always be a last resort, but I fear you may fail in court.  It's certainly not cut and dried, and I don't think I'd be heading to court if I wasn't pretty confident in a positive outcome.

As for your reasons for continuing to use the car, they're largely irrelevant.  You could take a loan to purchase a cheap runabout to tide you over while this is resolved.  It was perhaps unwise to sink all of your money into a car, leaving no reserve.

sweaty_doughnut

Aylesbury_Duck said:

sweaty_doughnut said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

sweaty_doughnut said:

I have always said to the dealership that issues are intermittent, the car is not falling apart but its value is affected signifiantly and brand new car should not have any crunchines! Brand new must be flawless. I have provided Hyundai now another chance to inapect it. I have recorded the audio with the inspecting engineer - on two occasions that he has experienced the issue he has avoided to comment and said he will speak with the technician because he thinks it's just the linkeage. What linkrage feeling on a brand new car.  If you people accept this kind of stuff that easily I will happily sell you my car. Hyundai doensn't insist for no reason that you are not present during diagnostics at the parking lot, that way they can claim it works as expected. I asked Hyundai to provide a signsture that the car is faultless so I can sell iy on carwow without having to report anything.

A brand new car shouldn't have any faults, and that's why any significant faults would be a reason to reject the car in the first 30 days.  Gearbox problems would probably be a justifiable reason for short term rejection.  The problem is that you didn't do that, and five months and 3,500 miles on, your chance to reject it for a full refund has gone.  By your own admission the convenience of continuing to use the car has been more important than sorting out the problem, which you reported in the first two weeks of owning it, so it's perhaps unsurprising the dealer has taken the stance they have.  From their point of view, you may have exacerbated what was a minor gearbox problem by continuing to use it - who knows what additional damage you've done in those 3,500 additional miles of crunching the gears?  It may be impossible to tell what was an inherent fault and what is user-generated damage.

Your views on whether Hyundai (is it Hyundai, or are you referring to the dealer?) are engaged in some sort of conspiracy are irrelevant.  What's relevant are your consumer rights.  I'm not surprised the dealer isn't being particularly forthcoming when talking to you if you're recording them.  

I said to dealership that I dont want to be blamed later if the issue progresses. They claimed there is no issue on first inspection, which was 45 days after purchase. Do I really need to fight tooth and nail to convince a mechanic that there is a problem. For this reason I hired an independent.

I think fast track is bad for both sides. They cant be sure they will win it with the evidence that the car had issues and that I had to use the vehicle until they accept it back due to family emergency. Was I supposed to buy one more car while I deal with dodgy dealer.

No, you shouldn't have to fight tooth and nail.  Consumer rights legislation says that any fault occurring in the first six months was assumed to have been present at purchase and is for the seller to sort out.  I'm not saying the dealer has behaved correctly here, but I can see the contradiction of you continuing to use the car after you supposedly rejected it, and continuing to use it because it's convenient to you.  The family situation, while difficult, has no bearing on your consumer rights.  It didn't stop the clock running on the first 30 days.

Court action should always be a last resort, but I fear you may fail in court.  It's certainly not cut and dried, and I don't think I'd be heading to court if I wasn't pretty confident in a positive outcome.

As for your reasons for continuing to use the car, they're largely irrelevant.  You could take a loan to purchase a cheap runabout to tide you over while this is resolved.  It was perhaps unwise to sink all of your money into a car, leaving no reserve.

It seems that a bunch of posts have disappeared.  What happened to the dealer offering to buy the car back?  Why haven't you bitten their hand off?  That offer alone could sink your court case - the court may simply ask why you didn't accept the dealer's offer to buy the car back from you.  Why haven't you?  Surely that's cleaner and faster than court proceedings, which could take many months from now, throughout which you'll continue to use the car, no doubt... 

They didn't offer to buy back the car, I have made an offer to them to take it back with a discount instead of paying back the full amount that I should be entitled under CRA 2015.

Everyone says drop it off at the forecourt. From what I have found online that is illegal. If you have left the car at my property I would call a tow truck to take it away.

I watched black belt barrister on CRA, everyone says the law is clear and provides protection, nobody says what do you do when the seller doesnt want to take it back.