Speed awareness course and PCH car lease

DocQuincy

I'm looking at doing a PCH lease for the first time. I have a clean license, never had any points so if I did ever get caught speeding I would hope to do a speed awareness course to avoid points.

I am just researching the details of leasing and can see I wouldn't get any tickets sent to me since I'm wouldn't be the regsitered keeper. Online, is says they either pay the fine and then get the money from you plus an admin fee or forward the ticket on.

In the case of a speeding ticket first offence, e.g. a camera catching me do 34 in a 30, would I still get the same chance to do a speed awareness course as I would if I were the registerered keeper? And if they're slow to forward on the ticket, would I theoretically have less time to pay it/apply for the course?

Keep_pedalling

Yes, the leasing company do not forward the NIP to you, they reply to the police nominating you and you will get your own one shortly after. 

FlorayG

Have you thought of just not breaking the law in the first place so that the situation never arises?

Wonka_2

Yes there’s a risk - if they’re slow to respond and you are (or you need to nominate another driver) - but I’ve honestly never heard this used as a reason not to take out a PCH 

DocQuincy

Keep_pedalling said:

Yes, the leasing company do not forward the NIP to you, they reply to the police nominating you and you will get your own one shortly after. 

Great, thanks.

TooManyPoints

Online, is says they either pay the fine and then get the money from you plus an admin fee or forward the ticket on.

Not unusually, "online" is talking rowlocks.

The lease company cannot "pay the fine" as they were not driving. Only the driver can pay any penalty for a speeding offence. The lease company must complete the "request for driver's details" naming you. Depending on your lease conditions, they may charge a fee for doing this.

The police will then contact you asking the same question. When you have confirmed to them you were the driver, they will offer you either a course or fixed penalty, or prosecute you in court (depending on the speed/limit). 

In the case of a speeding ticket first offence, e.g. a camera catching me do 34 in a 30,

Just for information, enforcement in a 30mph limit does not usually begin until 35mph is recorded. 

...would I still get the same chance to do a speed awareness course as I would if I were the registerered keeper?

Exactly the same.

And if they're slow to forward on the ticket, would I theoretically have less time to pay it/apply for the course?

Once again, for information, the lease company does not forward the ticket to you. They must respond as I explained above.

If you are offered a course or fixed penalty you will have the same time to book and take a course or pay the fixed penalty. What sometimes happens where finance or lease companies are involved is that delays mean the police do not get the final confirmation of who was driving until it is beyond the point where they will offer one or the other. In that case the driver is prosecuted in court. The court has powers to impose a sentence equivalent to the fixed penalty in those circumstances (instead of acting in accordance with the much more expensive sentencing guidelines). But they have no power to order a course.

DocQuincy

Thanks @TooManyPoints

If you are offered a course or fixed penalty you will have the same time to book and take a course or pay the fixed penalty. What sometimes happens where finance or lease companies are involved is that delays mean the police do not get the final confirmation of who was driving until it is beyond the point where they will offer one or the other. In that case the driver is prosecuted in court. The court has powers to impose a sentence equivalent to the fixed penalty in those circumstances (instead of acting in accordance with the much more expensive sentencing guidelines). But they have no power to order a course.

Surely the registered keeper is responsible for letting them know who the driver is/was and if they don't respond in time that falls on them. And when they reply with my name and address, doesn't that “reset the clock” — unless I dreampt it.

I have had a license for nearly 30 years and never had any points yet so it's unlikely but I'd be cheesed off if I got points instead of a speed awarness course due to this. I know you don't have a right to a SAC, but still…

TooManyPoints

Surely the registered keeper is responsible for letting them know who the driver is/was and if they don't respond in time that falls on them.

Each recipient of the "request for driver's details" (known as a "s172 request") has 28 days to respond. The lease company may not be (and often isn't) the RK. That may be a finance company. So it could be more than two months before the person actually keeping the vehicle hears about the allegation.

In any case it doesn't matter as far as what might happen to you goes. If the police do not get final confirmation of who was driving (and that must come from the driver) before their cut off date (which is usually about three months from the offence date for a course, a little later for a fixed penalty) they will not make the offer and instead prosecute you. They may take action against any recipients of s172 requests who respond late or not at all, but that will not alter any offer the police might or might not make to you.

 And when they reply with my name and address, doesn't that “reset the clock” — unless I dreampt it.

It only "resets the clock" insofar as you, like the previous recipients, have 28 days to respond to the request. Any prosecutions for speeding must begin within six months of the date of the offence and that is inviolable. So it is this which dictates whether or not the police make an out-of-court offer.

That said, although quite a number of cases like his are seen on motoring advice forums, I think in the overall scheme of things they are relatively rare. If I was thinking of leasing, I don't think it would be  major factor in my decision.

Aretnap

DocQuincy said:

I am just researching the details of leasing and can see I wouldn't get any tickets sent to me since I'm wouldn't be the regsitered keeper. Online, is says they either pay the fine and then get the money from you plus an admin fee...

That might be true of parking tickets and some other decriminalised contraventions which are enforced by councils, as for those is the vehicle owner (ie the lease company) who is liable for the penalty, not the driver.

It won't be true of speeding, and other criminal offences. Anybody who tells you that this is how they handle speeding tickets is confused.

Herzlos

DocQuincy said:

Online, is says they either pay the fine and then get the money from you plus an admin fee or forward the ticket on.

I think that'll apply to parking tickets / invoices rather than any motoring offenses where they need to identify the driver.

So you still need to be careful that if you park somewhere with parking scammers, the finance company will probably just pay it and bill you rather than passing it on to you to fight.

facade

As said, with offences that are dealt with by NIP/S172 where the driver is responsible they simply return the S172 naming you, and charge you an admin fee for their trouble. In the fullness of time you get your own S172/NIP.

What they will just pay, and then bill you for are parking "fines", toll payments etc. where the keeper is responsible rather than the driver. (I know- it is the driver responsible for a parking "fine" but they won't argue, just pay up and bill you plus admin fee plus VAT.)

So you can't appeal them