What a state HMRC is in

Lewie

Due to ill health I haven't been able to work to full capacity for around 8 years.
I've been claiming WTC for most of that time, being migrated to UC last year.
My Ni record hasn't been updated for 10 years since 2015-16.
Each year states that the year isn't full, blah blah, so none of those years have been credited to my pension (two years short).

I posed a question on the HMRC forums (another poor service).
The advice was to ring the Ni helpline.
After the usual blurb and much repetitive 'music' I spoke to an advisor.
She could see my UC year but there was no record of me claiming WTC, I would need to call them and ask them to send the information across.
Another wait to be told they had no idea what information they wanted, they didn't send information across to Ni.
The lady told me she would call Ni, drop the call and pass me over if it was an Ni issue, or come back to me if it was a WTC issue.

I was passed across, only to be told none of those years counted towards my pension.
I told her I was on WTC earning below the £6,725 (Self employed) threshold.
Oh, she said, I wasn't told that bit, I'll call them back.
I was put on hold (again), waited, until I heard "Thanks for calling, goodbye"!
I gave up that day.

Next day I rang WTC.
They had no idea what they had to do and had never come across such an issue.
This person refused to call Ni to get an explanation.

I rang Ni.
The chap on the phone seemed to know what he was talking about. Yaay!
He told me to check my wife's Ni record for any sign of WTC credits in case they had been given to her.
We couldn't see any mention of WTC, only her own personal record and payments.
He also told me to get the dates of all the years I had claimed WTC and come back to them with those dates.
How me telling them the dates would be proof that I had claimed WTC is beyond me.
Surely they need WTC officials to show them proof?
He also told me to ring the future pension centre. The message there was if you are more than 6 months away from state pension age then they can’t help, so that advice was wrong.

I attempted to ring WTC again but for some reason, even though I was using the saved number in my phone, I got through to a random person, that sounded like they were on a mobile phone, who told me that no, I hadn’t got through to WTC but he would ring them and put me through.
I got a short burst of hold music then the message “Welcome to DWP. This line is only for HMRC staff wanting to speak to or transfer to DWP. If you’re not calling from HMRC our advisors won’t be able to help you on this line. Please hang up and go to Gov.uk for the correct number to call”.
I hung on anyway but got that same old message “Thanks for calling, goodbye”!
The total time of that call? 48 minutes!!!!!!!  What a useless system HMRC is.

marcia_

 Working tax credits doesn't give you ni credits AFAIK 

Brie

Seems like a lot of being given the run around and getting no where.  So maybe it's time to ask different questions.

You say you need 2 years to get your full entitlement.  But how long before you can claim? 

AFAIK UC does count towards your entitlement so if you are going to be on UC for at least 2 years you should have the full whack which is, after all, what you are trying to get.

Presumably you have checked your pension forecast?  It might be helpful to paste a copy of what it says here so people can advise you further and, hopefully, set your mind to rest.  I'd be looking for something like this:

 

squirrelpie

marcia_ said:

 Working tax credits doesn't give you ni credits AFAIK 

https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-much-can-your-client-get/national-insurance-credits

"A person who receives Working Tax Credit but doesn’t pay National Insurance (NI) contributions, because their earnings are too low, may receive automatic NI credits that help to protect entitlement to state pension and certain bereavement benefits."

marcia_

squirrelpie said:

marcia_ said:

 Working tax credits doesn't give you ni credits AFAIK 

https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-much-can-your-client-get/national-insurance-credits

"A person who receives Working Tax Credit but doesn’t pay National Insurance (NI) contributions, because their earnings are too low, may receive automatic NI credits that help to protect entitlement to state pension and certain bereavement benefits."

 Thank you I didn't know that. But wouldn't they still get those credit if on a low income and not on WTC? 

sammyjammy

marcia_ said:

squirrelpie said:

marcia_ said:

 Working tax credits doesn't give you ni credits AFAIK 

https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-much-can-your-client-get/national-insurance-credits

"A person who receives Working Tax Credit but doesn’t pay National Insurance (NI) contributions, because their earnings are too low, may receive automatic NI credits that help to protect entitlement to state pension and certain bereavement benefits."

 Thank you I didn't know that. But wouldn't they still get those credit if on a low income and not on WTC? 

Not necessarily, the current weekly wages that entitle a person to an NI credit is at least £123 per week.

Lewie

For clarification, this statement was my situation taken from the HMRC website before they took it down on April 5th after WTC was abolished.  

"You get Working Tax Credit without a disability premium and you are an employed earner with earnings below the Lower Earnings Limit (currently £6,396 per a tax year) or have profits of less than £6,725 if you’re self-employed"

Why they have taken it down is anyone's guess, as people in my position still need to know this information.
I actually had the first Ni helpline rep tell me I wasn't entitled to credits as WTC wasn't on the list. Ludicrous.
HMRC, you need to put it back.

Thanks for the advice/comments, I was just venting, I have it all in hand (I think :-))
I'm going to wait for the dust to settle after the new tax year event at HMRC.
They don't seem to be able to handle change very well, in fact, they don't handle many things very well, apart from when they are owed!!

SnowMan

The section of the HMRC manual covering working tax credits and qualifying weeks for state pension is here

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/national-insurance-manual/nim41236

Remember that an employed person who was earning more than the lower earnings limit was entitled to qualifying weeks through earnings being high enough, so for the employed person who was receiving working tax credits it is only the below LEL scenario that needs to be covered through credits while receiving working tax credits..

As working tax credits have now ended that is presumably why they've taken down the information. But of course the information is still relevant to checking entitlement for earlier periods.

Lewie

Exactly Snow.
Take down the information only when the last person that needs it has seen it.
That will be years.
It's as though they don't want people to know what they can claim!
Either that, or this country is run by incompetent folk, take your pick.

sheramber

Any NI credits from WTC were paid to the person who was  paid the money.

You would elect who was paid the money when you applied  for WTC.

Who received the WTC payments- you or your wife?

If she paid NI payments from her employment the wtc credits would not show on her record as they would not be used.

Lewie

Thanks sheramber.
So this advice from the guy at Ni who I thought knew what he was on about was wrong too!! Sheesh.

He told me to check my wife's Ni record for any sign of WTC credits in case they had been given to her.
We couldn't see any mention of WTC, only her own personal record and payments.