Difficult neighbours

xiteex

Hello all. 

I own a share of freehold with my downstairs neighbours, just 2 flats in the building. Everything is split 50 50 and the service charge is as and when.

We recently encountered difficulties with my neighbours over maintaining the building and it is difficult to communicate with them about anything. So that we have a record of what is said, communication is always done via messages rather than in person.

Even with the chat history, when they message me they always contradict themselves and they always talk down to me. There is no way to have a normal conversation.

I suggested to them that we should set up a Declaration of Trust to make everything clearer and simpler to see what our responsibilities are. I then received the following:

I’m open to it but only if its fair, protects both sides, and reflects our 50/50 ownership of the freehold. It should include clear terms, such as:

 1. Who owns which flat (ground floor / first floor).

 2. Responsibilities for internal and external maintenance.

 3. Requirement for at least two quotes and mutual agreement for shared works, unless the issue is urgent and structural.

 4. The right to sell or transfer shares.

 5. A fair dispute resolution process

 6. And critically, that TR1 does not require both parties signatures in deadlock situations where one party wants to sell..

 From the above, I don’t think item 1 should be included as we know who owns which flat.

 Is item 6 a good item to have?

They also mentioned that they want to sell their flat at the end of the month and if they don’t sell they will rent it our via the councils affordable housing scheme who will then manage everything so they don't have to deal with anything anymore. If they do rent it out via the council would that likely affect the value of our property?

Can I add something to the declaration of trust to prevent further complications that would help with the council if they should rent it.

Lastly, I just got a message from my neighbour. They are asking for us to retrospectively pay for a lintel (around £2000) they had changed for their window. They are now saying that because it’s a shared wall that we should pay half. The quote they sent us was dated September 2023 and we exchanged November 2023. We were not informed of the work from our solicitor, surely we are not liable as we could have negotiated or withdrew from the sale at that time, why would we be liable for a property that we did not even own at that time?

 Any advice would be appreciated. 

Grumpy_chap

xiteex said:

Hello all. 

I own a share of freehold with my downstairs neighbours, just 2 flats in the building. Everything is split 50 50 and the service charge is as and when.

We recently encountered difficulties with my neighbours over maintaining the building and it is difficult to communicate with them about anything. So that we have a record of what is said, communication is always done via messages rather than in person.

Even with the chat history, when they message me they always contradict themselves and they always talk down to me. There is no way to have a normal conversation.

I suggested to them that we should set up a Declaration of Trust to make everything clearer and simpler to see what our responsibilities are. I then received the following:

I’m open to it but only if its fair, protects both sides, and reflects our 50/50 ownership of the freehold. It should include clear terms, such as:

 1. Who owns which flat (ground floor / first floor).

 2. Responsibilities for internal and external maintenance.

 3. Requirement for at least two quotes and mutual agreement for shared works, unless the issue is urgent and structural.

 4. The right to sell or transfer shares.

 5. A fair dispute resolution process

 6. And critically, that TR1 does not require both parties signatures in deadlock situations where one party wants to sell..

 From the above, I don’t think item 1 should be included as we know who owns which flat.

 Is item 6 a good item to have?

They also mentioned that they want to sell their flat at the end of the month and if they don’t sell they will rent it our via the councils affordable housing scheme who will then manage everything so they don't have to deal with anything anymore. If they do rent it out via the council would that likely affect the value of our property?

Can I add something to the declaration of trust to prevent further complications that would help with the council if they should rent it.

Lastly, I just got a message from my neighbour. They are asking for us to retrospectively pay for a lintel (around £2000) they had changed for their window. They are now saying that because it’s a shared wall that we should pay half. The quote they sent us was dated September 2023 and we exchanged November 2023. We were not informed of the work from our solicitor, surely we are not liable as we could have negotiated or withdrew from the sale at that time, why would we be liable for a property that we did not even own at that time?

 Any advice would be appreciated. 

In what way are the neighbours being difficult?

I have no experience but, as a lay man, the notes about the deed of trust all sound reasonable.  What did you think would / would not be included in the deed of trust?

The comment about the lintel seems odd. When you purchased, did your conveyancing Solicitor include a clause in the purchase to say no previous costs outstanding?

silvercar

They also mentioned that they want to sell their flat at the end of the month and if they don’t sell they will rent it our via the councils affordable housing scheme who will then manage everything so they don't have to deal with anything anymore. If they do rent it out via the council would that likely affect the value of our property?

The council won’t manage the building for them. They will manage the tenancy and the payment of rent, they won’t get involved in anything else.

It shouldn’t effect the value of your property unless you get into a neighbour dispute that you would need to declare.

xiteex

Grumpy_chap said:

xiteex said:

Hello all. 

I own a share of freehold with my downstairs neighbours, just 2 flats in the building. Everything is split 50 50 and the service charge is as and when.

We recently encountered difficulties with my neighbours over maintaining the building and it is difficult to communicate with them about anything. So that we have a record of what is said, communication is always done via messages rather than in person.

Even with the chat history, when they message me they always contradict themselves and they always talk down to me. There is no way to have a normal conversation.

I suggested to them that we should set up a Declaration of Trust to make everything clearer and simpler to see what our responsibilities are. I then received the following:

I’m open to it but only if its fair, protects both sides, and reflects our 50/50 ownership of the freehold. It should include clear terms, such as:

 1. Who owns which flat (ground floor / first floor).

 2. Responsibilities for internal and external maintenance.

 3. Requirement for at least two quotes and mutual agreement for shared works, unless the issue is urgent and structural.

 4. The right to sell or transfer shares.

 5. A fair dispute resolution process

 6. And critically, that TR1 does not require both parties signatures in deadlock situations where one party wants to sell..

 From the above, I don’t think item 1 should be included as we know who owns which flat.

 Is item 6 a good item to have?

They also mentioned that they want to sell their flat at the end of the month and if they don’t sell they will rent it our via the councils affordable housing scheme who will then manage everything so they don't have to deal with anything anymore. If they do rent it out via the council would that likely affect the value of our property?

Can I add something to the declaration of trust to prevent further complications that would help with the council if they should rent it.

Lastly, I just got a message from my neighbour. They are asking for us to retrospectively pay for a lintel (around £2000) they had changed for their window. They are now saying that because it’s a shared wall that we should pay half. The quote they sent us was dated September 2023 and we exchanged November 2023. We were not informed of the work from our solicitor, surely we are not liable as we could have negotiated or withdrew from the sale at that time, why would we be liable for a property that we did not even own at that time?

 Any advice would be appreciated. 

In what way are the neighbours being difficult?

I have no experience but, as a lay man, the notes about the deed of trust all sound reasonable.  What did you think would / would not be included in the deed of trust?

The comment about the lintel seems odd. When you purchased, did your conveyancing Solicitor include a clause in the purchase to say no previous costs outstanding?

Sorry, we have a history with bad communication with them. I was the one that suggested 'The declaration of trust' but just wanted to know  about item 6 has he used the word 'critically' so was not sure, i thought it was something special but if its a standard thing, then that's fine. With regards to the lintel nothing was said by the solicitors, i am still unsure if i am liable. 

xiteex

silvercar said:

They also mentioned that they want to sell their flat at the end of the month and if they don’t sell they will rent it our via the councils affordable housing scheme who will then manage everything so they don't have to deal with anything anymore. If they do rent it out via the council would that likely affect the value of our property?

The council won’t manage the building for them. They will manage the tenancy and the payment of rent, they won’t get involved in anything else.

It shouldn’t effect the value of your property unless you get into a neighbour dispute that you would need to declare.

I thought if we have do the The declaration of trust that the council would need to get involved as well, i guess they misunderstood something then. Thank you.

Grumpy_chap

xiteex said:

Grumpy_chap said:

xiteex said:

Hello all. 

I own a share of freehold with my downstairs neighbours, just 2 flats in the building. Everything is split 50 50 and the service charge is as and when.

We recently encountered difficulties with my neighbours over maintaining the building and it is difficult to communicate with them about anything. So that we have a record of what is said, communication is always done via messages rather than in person.

Even with the chat history, when they message me they always contradict themselves and they always talk down to me. There is no way to have a normal conversation.

I suggested to them that we should set up a Declaration of Trust to make everything clearer and simpler to see what our responsibilities are. I then received the following:

I’m open to it but only if its fair, protects both sides, and reflects our 50/50 ownership of the freehold. It should include clear terms, such as:

 1. Who owns which flat (ground floor / first floor).

 2. Responsibilities for internal and external maintenance.

 3. Requirement for at least two quotes and mutual agreement for shared works, unless the issue is urgent and structural.

 4. The right to sell or transfer shares.

 5. A fair dispute resolution process

 6. And critically, that TR1 does not require both parties signatures in deadlock situations where one party wants to sell..

 From the above, I don’t think item 1 should be included as we know who owns which flat.

 Is item 6 a good item to have?

They also mentioned that they want to sell their flat at the end of the month and if they don’t sell they will rent it our via the councils affordable housing scheme who will then manage everything so they don't have to deal with anything anymore. If they do rent it out via the council would that likely affect the value of our property?

Can I add something to the declaration of trust to prevent further complications that would help with the council if they should rent it.

Lastly, I just got a message from my neighbour. They are asking for us to retrospectively pay for a lintel (around £2000) they had changed for their window. They are now saying that because it’s a shared wall that we should pay half. The quote they sent us was dated September 2023 and we exchanged November 2023. We were not informed of the work from our solicitor, surely we are not liable as we could have negotiated or withdrew from the sale at that time, why would we be liable for a property that we did not even own at that time?

 Any advice would be appreciated. 

In what way are the neighbours being difficult?

I have no experience but, as a lay man, the notes about the deed of trust all sound reasonable.  What did you think would / would not be included in the deed of trust?

The comment about the lintel seems odd. When you purchased, did your conveyancing Solicitor include a clause in the purchase to say no previous costs outstanding?

Sorry, we have a history with bad communication with them. I was the one that suggested 'The declaration of trust' but just wanted to know  about item 6 has he used the word 'critically' so was not sure, i thought it was something special but if its a standard thing, then that's fine. With regards to the lintel nothing was said by the solicitors, i am still unsure if i am liable. 

You will need legal advice but a clause that prevents either from blocking a sale by the other seems sensible.  I don't think that word "critically" has a specific legal meaning - I took that to be simply the neighbour saying this is an important item for them.

Why did changing the window require a new lintel?
Were the old windows structural in nature and the new windows not?
Was the opening made larger for the new windows?
Both of those seem to be choices made by the neighbour and benefitting the neighbour.

xiteex

Grumpy_chap said:

xiteex said:

Grumpy_chap said:

xiteex said:

Hello all. 

I own a share of freehold with my downstairs neighbours, just 2 flats in the building. Everything is split 50 50 and the service charge is as and when.

We recently encountered difficulties with my neighbours over maintaining the building and it is difficult to communicate with them about anything. So that we have a record of what is said, communication is always done via messages rather than in person.

Even with the chat history, when they message me they always contradict themselves and they always talk down to me. There is no way to have a normal conversation.

I suggested to them that we should set up a Declaration of Trust to make everything clearer and simpler to see what our responsibilities are. I then received the following:

I’m open to it but only if its fair, protects both sides, and reflects our 50/50 ownership of the freehold. It should include clear terms, such as:

 1. Who owns which flat (ground floor / first floor).

 2. Responsibilities for internal and external maintenance.

 3. Requirement for at least two quotes and mutual agreement for shared works, unless the issue is urgent and structural.

 4. The right to sell or transfer shares.

 5. A fair dispute resolution process

 6. And critically, that TR1 does not require both parties signatures in deadlock situations where one party wants to sell..

 From the above, I don’t think item 1 should be included as we know who owns which flat.

 Is item 6 a good item to have?

They also mentioned that they want to sell their flat at the end of the month and if they don’t sell they will rent it our via the councils affordable housing scheme who will then manage everything so they don't have to deal with anything anymore. If they do rent it out via the council would that likely affect the value of our property?

Can I add something to the declaration of trust to prevent further complications that would help with the council if they should rent it.

Lastly, I just got a message from my neighbour. They are asking for us to retrospectively pay for a lintel (around £2000) they had changed for their window. They are now saying that because it’s a shared wall that we should pay half. The quote they sent us was dated September 2023 and we exchanged November 2023. We were not informed of the work from our solicitor, surely we are not liable as we could have negotiated or withdrew from the sale at that time, why would we be liable for a property that we did not even own at that time?

 Any advice would be appreciated. 

In what way are the neighbours being difficult?

I have no experience but, as a lay man, the notes about the deed of trust all sound reasonable.  What did you think would / would not be included in the deed of trust?

The comment about the lintel seems odd. When you purchased, did your conveyancing Solicitor include a clause in the purchase to say no previous costs outstanding?

Sorry, we have a history with bad communication with them. I was the one that suggested 'The declaration of trust' but just wanted to know  about item 6 has he used the word 'critically' so was not sure, i thought it was something special but if its a standard thing, then that's fine. With regards to the lintel nothing was said by the solicitors, i am still unsure if i am liable. 

You will need legal advice but a clause that prevents either from blocking a sale by the other seems sensible.  I don't think that word "critically" has a specific legal meaning - I took that to be simply the neighbour saying this is an important item for them.

Why did changing the window require a new lintel?
Were the old windows structural in nature and the new windows not?
Was the opening made larger for the new windows?
Both of those seem to be choices made by the neighbour and benefitting the neighbour.

Thanks for the reply.

They told me the day after i moved in that they didn't like the windows so they were changing them, and one of the lintels was missing, that's all they told me. They got the quote in September for the work and we exchanged in November. The windows were like for like.