HIPs - I'm confused!

MissMotivation

EdInvestor wrote: »

I am surprised to hear they would accept them at all.Lenders have said they will not accept them. Or has this changed?

A lot of Solicitors still want to carry out separate searches and won't accept the ones in the HIP....obviously the purchaser has to pay for these.

Not sure if it's Lenders that won't accept them or the solicitors.

chriserenity

MissMotivation wrote: »

A lot of Solicitors still want to carry out separate searches and won't accept the ones in the HIP....obviously the purchaser has to pay for these.

Not sure if it's Lenders that won't accept them or the solicitors.

Really - maybe its just in the Midlands where you are. What reasons did they give for not accepting the searches in the HIP? I can understand why a lender/solicitor would have a problem if the search was uninsured or from a completely new personal search agent.

Conveyancers ordering searches on the acceptance of an offer completely defeats the object of what the HIP was designed for.

david29dpo

chriserenity wrote: »

Absolutely, people can compile thier own HIP and it is usually cheaper to do so. There are about 800 to 900 full time inspectors needed nationally at this time to fulfil demand but there are officially about 6000 ready to go with another 5000 or so on the way right behind them. Finding an EPC will not be a problem!

However, there are some issues with compiling yourself specifically regarding the searches. The searches that go into our packs are insured for up to £2m and covers all parties involved for peace of mind. Not all searches carry such insurance and if there is a problem it may be ambiguous who is liable! Secondly, many buyer's solicitors won't accept the searches if they are out of date (opinion on when this is seems to vary from 3 months to 9 months).

Out of date searches result in the buyer's solicitor having to pay again for something the seller should provide or in some cases the seller re-ordering the search which is a further cost. You can get HIPs that come with a free search renewal to cover this eventuality but please be aware that not all HIP providers do this particularly the cheap operators (generally).

You can get an official search from the local council but you can also pay a quality personal search company to do it. The water search may not necessarily be from severn trent. It will depend on who the the water authority is in your area. In mine for example its Yorkshire Water. DIY HIP forms are available for free as the previous poster said on the governmen't HIP website:
http://www.homeinformationpacks.gov.uk

All official searches are insured anyway. This post is bordering on self advertising and only confuses the the OP more.

chriserenity

You're assuming all packs have 'official' LA searches in them which they don't. Not by a long shot. I was making reference to personal searches actually - not all are appropriately insured.

The OP's question was about how packs are compiled and what they contain and most HIPs contain personal searches. Hence the answer David.

honeychurch

I was told (by our estate agent) to beware of HIP providers using personal searches as solicitors have been making the purchaser pay for non-personal (local authority? searches) again...(the EA was not trying to sell me a HIP themselves).

If the personal searches are insured would the solicitor still ask them to be re-done at the purchasers expense? In the spirit of money saving I would like to avoid this!

david29dpo

honeychurch wrote: »

I was told (by our estate agent) to beware of HIP providers using personal searches as solicitors have been making the purchaser pay for non-personal (local authority? searches) again...(the EA was not trying to sell me a HIP themselves).

If the personal searches are insured would the solicitor still ask them to be re-done at the purchasers expense? In the spirit of money saving I would like to avoid this!

My point exactly. I have a solicitor of 25 years sitting next to me as a type. He has seen many personal searches over the years, many look like they have been done by a 9 year old and quite rightly, belong in the bin. Many HIP providers use them because they are cheaper. Your agent has gave you excellent advice on this because why take the risk with yours buyers having to pay for something they no-longer have to? On your second point, yes, the solicitor may want official searches done because the personal ones could be so bad that he cannot understand them and its less hassle for him to get new ones than claim on the insurance on the personal ones if they are wrong. I have recently seen a personal water & drainage search map with the wrong outline for the sewers!

chriserenity

honeychurch wrote: »

I was told (by our estate agent) to beware of HIP providers using personal searches as solicitors have been making the purchaser pay for non-personal (local authority? searches) again...(the EA was not trying to sell me a HIP themselves).

If the personal searches are insured would the solicitor still ask them to be re-done at the purchasers expense? In the spirit of money saving I would like to avoid this!

In view of the previous poster's remarks it would seem I need to qualify my remarks about personal searches. We have consulted with many conveyancing solicitors on the subject of personal searches in our area and their views on them are (paraphrased) as follows:

In their experience if the search is personal and insured they will NOT redo the searches as the information contained in them is perfectly acceptable if it comes from a trusted source. Conveyancers see hundreds of searches and the name of the search agent is displayed in the search. They get to know the good ones as a good personal searcher is his own brand. My advice: If compiling your own HIP ask the local council how much they charge for a LA search then ask a reputable personal search agent in the area how much he charges and go with the cheapest. Fina a good search agent by asking your local solicitors who they use. Recommendations are best right?

Now to address the elephant in the corner. If a search is replaced this is mainly not because they are personal, its because they are too old to be useful (a trait shared by both LA and personal types). Once the search becomes older than 6 months it isn't much use to many solicitors which leaves them or the buyer with the burden of replacing them. I'd say 99% of HIP providers haven't addressed this basic problem which in a 'slowing' property market is not good news.

In terms of moneysaving I believe it is more cost effective to use personal searches than LA searches as they cost less to start with and you can get a free renewal on them from search agents and indeed HIP providers offering more than the 'legally compliant' basic HIP. To reiterate, personal searches are widely accepted by the majority of conveyancing solicitors.

In addition, I don't know a single LA who renew their searches if the issue of their age is raised by the buyer's solicitor so in this way LA searches are inferior to personal ones.

Whatever you decide to do I hope your sale goes well. All the best.

Richard_Webster

To reiterate, personal searches are widely accepted by the majority of conveyancing solicitors.

I agree. A very few lenders - HSBC is the most prominent - don't accept personal searches. It is the solcitors who occasionally won't do so. Also both local authority and personal searches can be "extended" for up to a year by taking out insurance that pays out in the event of loss arising from an entry that would have been discovered had the search been repeated. This is cheaper than repeating the search - to "validate" a search on a property worth between £100K & £200K costs £30 with a leading provider.

chriserenity

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Also both local authority and personal searches can be "extended" for up to a year by taking out insurance that pays out in the event of loss arising from an entry that would have been discovered had the search been repeated. This is cheaper than repeating the search - to "validate" a search on a property worth between £100K & £200K costs £30 with a leading provider.

If as a conveyancing solicitor acting for the buyer you had an ageing HIP land on your desk, would you prefer either a search insured against missing information or a search with a 'free renewal' attached to it?

The reason I ask is the feedback we received from our local solicitors on 're-searching' vs the 'insurance' option is that they would prefer that the former as they feel this would result in less problems for the individual fee paying clients. They also said that they felt it was unlikely this would be a common feature of HIPs due to the extra cost (as you said its cheaper to insure).

I'd say this is reflected in the majority of HIP providers - only a handful renew the searches and even fewer at no greater cost to the vendor with most choosing to insure against information omitted due to the information appearing in LA records. after the search was conducted.