Lease and MA's refusal to observe

KoalaMSEF

Recently, we had an interesting encounter with MA when it comes to repair. 

The lease states that the front door, its frame, windows, and its frames are "subject in all cases nevertheless to the obligation of the Management Company for replacement repair" in verbatim. 

Long story short. MA refused to observe, denying the clause, quoting bad wording from the solicitors who drafted the lease, and insisting that it is not MA's problem.

Needless to say, it is quite eye-opening and MA in this country never stops amaze me. Just wondering if anybody has the similar experience and would love to hear your thoughts. 

Many thanks!

newsgroupmonkey_

Am I the only one wondering what MA is?

marcia_

newsgroupmonkey_ said:

Am I the only one wondering what MA is?

 Managing agents? 

KoalaMSEF

Yes, Management agent or management company, or factor in Scotland. 

user1977

Can we see the context of the bit you've quoted? It doesn't sound well-drafted and might not in itself create an obligation.

KoalaMSEF said:

Yes, Management agent or management company, or factor in Scotland. 

I assume this has nothing to do with Scotland anyway, but not really equivalent as factors are purely agents who manage things on behalf of the flats' owners, they don't take on maintenance obligations themselves.

eddddy

It sounds like there might be 1 or  maybe 2 issues.

• 1) You and the managing agent are disagreeing about the interpretation of wording of the lease. And/or

• 2) Based on your interpretation of the lease, you believe that the Managing Agent or Freeholder is breaching the lease by failing to repair the door. And you're wondering what remedies are available to you?

As a starting point, how confident are you that your interpretation is correct? (It seems like you've quoted part of a sentence from your lease, you probably need to post a bit more to get helpful opinions.)

KoalaMSEF

Scotland is a different story, in theory vs. in practice and a lot of things in between. Similarly, with leasehold, there are things in theory vs. in practice, and a lot of ambiguity in between. 

In this case, the context - it is a clause in the schedule about The Property.

It says, literally, as quoted, above - "The property stated in clause LR 4 comprises xxxx with all landlord's fixtures and fittings now or later in the flat including: the door to the Property and its frame the windows and their frames subject in all cases nevertheless to the obligation of the Management Company for replacement repair and external redecoration of the windows frames."

KoalaMSEF

eddddy said:

It sounds like there might be 1 or  maybe 2 issues.

• 1) You and the managing agent are disagreeing about the interpretation of wording of the lease. And/or

• 2) Based on your interpretation of the lease, you believe that the Managing Agent or Freeholder is breaching the lease by failing to repair the door. And you're wondering what remedies are available to you?

As a starting point, how confident are you that your interpretation is correct? (It seems like you've quoted part of a sentence from your lease, you probably need to post a bit more to get helpful opinions.)

Thanks for your comments. The brevity is not a sign of the confidence level, and the remedies are straightforward - we pay for what it costs, via the management agent or the contractor. 

The context is shared in my post above. This is the second disagreement I've had when it came to interpreting the lease. In the previous incident, the interpretation I took prevailed. This does not mean the interpretation in this case would prevail too. After all, interpretations differ, even among judges. 

It is always helpful to hear different opinions. 

eddddy

KoalaMSEF said:

The brevity is not a sign of the confidence level, and the remedies are straightforward - we pay for what it costs, via the management agent or the contractor. 

Your posts are a bit hard to follow.

If you believe that the Managing Agent is breaching the lease by failing to repair/maintain a door/frame, remedies available to you include...

• Applying to a tribunal to appoint a manger
• Applying to a tribunal to take over the 'Right to Manage'
• Applying to buy the freehold (probably)
• Applying for a court order
• There's also a concept of 'Self Help'

If that's the type of info you're looking for, I can give you a few relevant links. But your posts are a bit cryptic, so I'm not sure if that's what you're asking about.

KoalaMSEF

Thanks for your comments. We seem to be lost in translation a bit.

I am curious to know (1) whether people have similar experience and/or (2) how they would interpret this clause, which seems to be overly straightforwards. Now user1977 said that it may not be an obligation, which I am interested in knowing more with further context provided.

I am aware of all these options. Gov.uk has very detailed information about how to deal with it. And yes, my remedies did include "self help" by saying pay for what it costs... via/to a contractor. 

This is one of those things... we seem to have so many options when something happened, yet in reality, very little can be done without consuming a large quantity of time and energy for something trivial. Certainly it is a lot easier to handle it, as the management agent advised that it was cheaper for us if we do it ourselves without involving them. It is a lot more expensive to go all the way to the legal, unless you are really really angry and/or out of principle. 

Just some thoughts. 

user1977

KoalaMSEF said:

In this case, the context - it is a clause in the schedule about The Property.

It says, literally, as quoted, above - "The property stated in clause LR 4 comprises xxxx with all landlord's fixtures and fittings now or later in the flat including: the door to the Property and its frame the windows and their frames subject in all cases nevertheless to the obligation of the Management Company for replacement repair and external redecoration of the windows frames."

That's just the description of the property. If there's a repair obligation it'll be somewhere else.