Loosing council tax reduction due to migration to UC

Newcad

TimeLord1 said:

So @Newcad what he's saying about closing his fortnightly new style ESA to get one monthly UC payment won't change his entitlement to any council tax reduction. But what happens to his National Insurance credits do they continue as Class 3 National Insurance credits because of receiving all Universal Credit?

Not really CT related but New Style ESA qualifies for Class 1 credits, UC for Class 3 credits.

(Class 3 count towards your pension but not towards claiming Contribution Based benefits).

So yes there is a difference there - but it's not a great concern for most who are managed migrating.

Newcad

Polarbearmarsh said:

The loss of council tax reduction was due to the migration from income based ESA to UC, which somehow put me in New style ESA, that was the reason I lost the reduction.....

That's not quite right.

Your old ESA was BOTH Contribution Based AND Income Related.

Lots of people are like this with both kinds of ESA,  but don't realise it until they come to migrate.

Your IR ESA became UC - Your CB ESA became New Style ESA .

The only part of that which changed your Council Tax was that you are no longer getting IR ESA so are no longer "passported" to full Council Tax Relief.

Because you are not 'passported' any more then the council has to do an income calculation to see what CTR you may qualify for (or not) under their rules.

Spoonie_Turtle

Polarbearmarsh said:

TimeLord1 said:

So off your council Tax bill you get 25% single occupancy 
But because you've moved to UC they removed your qualifying as disabled income have they calculated the daily living PIP as the 70% reduction also.

A while ago there was a possibility that under 35 single claimants would only be eligible for rent for a bedsit (I don't know if it was ever actioned). 

That is the case now for Housing Benefit and UC in privately rented property, unless the person is in receipt of the daily living element of PIP or DLA. 
[I remember it was under 32 over a decade ago when I was looking (pre-disability when moving out would have been doable if I could have afforded it), then it was raised to 35 not long after that.]

Polarbearmarsh

Newcad said:

Polarbearmarsh said:

The loss of council tax reduction was due to the migration from income based ESA to UC, which somehow put me in New style ESA, that was the reason I lost the reduction.....

That's not quite right.

Your old ESA was BOTH Contribution Based AND Income Related.

Lots of people are like this with both kinds of ESA,  but don't realise it until they come to migrate.

Your IR ESA became UC - Your CB ESA became New Style ESA .

The only part of that which changed your Council Tax was that you are no longer getting IR ESA so are no longer "passported" to full Council Tax Relief.

Because you are not 'passported' any more then the council has to do an income calculation to see what CTR you may qualify for (or not) under their rules.

The migration from Incapacity benefit to ESA did move me to contribution based, if I remember rightly contribution based lasted 6 months and then stoped. I wasn't on DLA at the time. I also believe I closed that claim as well. I can't remember exactly why it was better to claim only income based but something tells me it was to do with a premium that I couldn't get on contribution based but I could be mistaken. Hopefully everything should go back to normal, I was told to call UC and council tomorrow to see if the NS ESA claim is now closed.

TimeLord1

Newcad said:

TimeLord1 said:

So @Newcad what he's saying about closing his fortnightly new style ESA to get one monthly UC payment won't change his entitlement to any council tax reduction. But what happens to his National Insurance credits do they continue as Class 3 National Insurance credits because of receiving all Universal Credit?

Not really CT related but New Style ESA qualifies for Class 1 credits, UC for Class 3 credits.

(Class 3 count towards your pension but not towards claiming Contribution Based benefits).

So yes there is a difference there - but it's not a great concern for most who are managed migrating.

Think I'll have a read on the National insurance difference in classes. 👍

Polarbearmarsh

As far as I can tell everything is now back to normal. I called UC to check they had been informed my ESA claim was now closed, unfortunately they couldn't confirm they had been updated. They could only tell me any changes would be shown on my next statement (which isn't due until 2nd May). I also called the council who did confirm I had been awarded the full reduction (70%). Until they reissue my bill I won't know if I will have to pay the arrears accrued due to the loss of reduction and being informed I had lost the reduction. It looks like I might be a little over a month of the increased cost I may owe so about £70-£90. Not brilliant but I knew the migration was coming and that there were problems with UC so I managed to put away £20 a month over the last 6 months so it's covered. A massive thank you to everyone who gave advice, as well as everyone who read this thread. Hopefully this will help anyone in a similar boat 

Poppy21

The same has just happened to me - Plymouth City Council.
 I am waiting to hear if they will reinstate my previous support for council tax. Otherwise it’s going to get pretty grim

Newcad

As said before when you migrate to UC you lose 'Passporting' to full CTR and instead the council has to calculate your CTR entitlement from your income, the same as they do for everyone else.

It's that 'Passporting' that has been removed so that those on UC have their entitlement to CTR calculated in the same way as those who are working or over State Pension age.
(It's removed partly because you can claim UC whilst working).
Once everyone has been migrated to UC there will be no more automatic 'Passporting' from an IR benefit.

The issue then is that each council is allowed to have their own rules on the calculation limits for CTR eligibility, as well as on how much reduction will be applied - and some councils are stinger than others and have lower limits and lesser reductions.

It's one of the things that doesn't get mentioned in the documentation for "Move to UC", simply because Council Tax Reduction is nothing to do with the DWP and is not a benefit that gets migrated to UC.
(It's not a 'Benefit' as such at all. It doesn't pay anything, it reduces what you have to pay for CT).

FrustratedConfused

Polarbearmarsh said:

Hi everyone, any help here would be appreciated. I recently received a migration notice to move from ESA to UC (I also get PIP enhanced on both components). I made my claim and I now receive both ESA and UC (UC reduced by ESA pound for pound). I am in the limited work and work related activity group. I have been told I no longer qualify for council tax reduction. Apparently my ESA is now contribution based and so all my ESA and UC is counted as earned income putting me over the applicable amount (which I'm told is about £111). Any advice on dealing with this would be appreciated. I don't know if (or even how) I should try to change to just UC or if there are other options. My bill has gone up around £60 month because of this. Thank you for reading and any advice you can offer.

I Have Found Myself In Exactly The Same Situation, I Am In Leicester And I Was On ESA And High Rate PIP On Both Elements And Was Told I Had To Migrate Over To UC But I Would Not Lose Anything By Doing It So I Went Ahead And Now I Still Get The Same PIP But I Now Get UC Instead Of ESA But I Now Have To Pay My Full Council Tax Bill And UC Told Me They Do Not Deal With It And When I Tried Speaking To The Council ( Could Not Understand Him Properly Because Of His Accent ) But He Said That I Am Getting Too Much Money To Be Qualified For CTB Even Though I Am Getting Pretty Much The Same As I Was Before So Now My CT Payments Have Gone From £27 A Month To £150 Which I Just Cannot Afford So I Don't Know What I Am Going To Do. 

sammyjammy

FrustratedConfused said:

Polarbearmarsh said:

Hi everyone, any help here would be appreciated. I recently received a migration notice to move from ESA to UC (I also get PIP enhanced on both components). I made my claim and I now receive both ESA and UC (UC reduced by ESA pound for pound). I am in the limited work and work related activity group. I have been told I no longer qualify for council tax reduction. Apparently my ESA is now contribution based and so all my ESA and UC is counted as earned income putting me over the applicable amount (which I'm told is about £111). Any advice on dealing with this would be appreciated. I don't know if (or even how) I should try to change to just UC or if there are other options. My bill has gone up around £60 month because of this. Thank you for reading and any advice you can offer.

I Have Found Myself In Exactly The Same Situation, I Am In Leicester And I Was On ESA And High Rate PIP On Both Elements And Was Told I Had To Migrate Over To UC But I Would Not Lose Anything By Doing It So I Went Ahead And Now I Still Get The Same PIP But I Now Get UC Instead Of ESA But I Now Have To Pay My Full Council Tax Bill And UC Told Me They Do Not Deal With It And When I Tried Speaking To The Council ( Could Not Understand Him Properly Because Of His Accent ) But He Said That I Am Getting Too Much Money To Be Qualified For CTB Even Though I Am Getting Pretty Much The Same As I Was Before So Now My CT Payments Have Gone From £27 A Month To £150 Which I Just Cannot Afford So I Don't Know What I Am Going To Do. 

Have you actually put in a formal request for council tax reduction?  Its not clear?  The guarantee of not receiving less on UC does not include the council tax increase you might have.