Giving notice to a tenant

FlorayG

BikingBud said:

FlorayG said:

80stoyfan said:

theartfullodger said:

Which country ?? (Presumably england??)

The building society found the tenant?? Blimey, who was that then.  We take it all (ALL) rent income has been declared to HMRC..

Have you checked that the s21 will be valid - many many are not... >> e,g, 
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/possession_and_eviction/notices_in_possession_proceedings/what_makes_a_section_21_notice_invalid
&
https://nearlylegal.co.uk/section-21-flowchart/

(It's not just sticking deposit in deposit scheme... a lot lot more...)

You'll realise that s21 does not end tenancy nor compel tenant to leave.  They have  rights to remain from the same act as you have the right to serve s21 (Thatcher's 1988 Housing Act)....

Got all the evidence for CGT ?? (Needs eclaring & paying within 60 days of sale...)

I am asking these questions so that the whole process is done fairly? From what I can gather based on info that I have read plus what you have included I have done what I need to do, just need to know if it is a form 6a I need to give. 
So if the s21 doesn't compel a tenant to leave and you have done everything properly to give them notice, what then? Take them to court? There must be some protection for landlords?

NO, there's no protection for LL and it's about to get worse which is why so many are selling up and getting out of being a LL.
Use the 6A form, issue the S21 with the required notice or longer ( the longer you give them, the longer they have to find elsewhere to live)
Unfortunately as you have not increased the rent for 15 years the tenants are unlikely to be able to find anywhere else they can afford, having lived up to their means all this time, so they will not want to leave and you may have to go to court. This can take as long as 6 months to get tenants to leave
If they want to apply for social housing then they will be required to resist the S21 because if they leave as requested they will be deemed to be 'voluntarily homeless' and the council will not help them
You might consider offering them a financial incentive to leave...or increasing the rent to market value

But you cannot presume. If the LL tries playing a new comparitive rent card as their route to achieving vacant possession and the tenant stumps up. What then?

Well then quite possibly the LL may decide not to sell as they will be getting a decent return at last?

pinkshoes

80stoyfan said:

pinkshoes said:

80stoyfan said:

horsewithnoname said:

It’s your tenant’s home; have you offered to them to buy? They might jump at the chance. 

Yes they can't get a mortgage for the value of the house 

Being realistic, if they can't get a mortgage and haven't had a rent increase for 15 years, then there's a chance they won't want to leave...

So you absolutely MUST issue the S21 correctly with proof of postage. 

If they can't find anywhere to go, the council will advise them to stay put until a court and bailiff eviction, so you should prepare for this, and will take quite a bit longer than the 2 months.

You could also bribe the tenant to leave if it looks like they're wanting to not go e.g. if they move out by X date, then you'll give them £XXXX towards the cost of moving. 

Can you give them the S21 in person? Presumably also increasing the rent as other's have mentioned is an option?

Yes, it can be delivered in person, but just to be on the safe side, I'd also send one in the post with proof of postage, just in case you end up having to take it to court and the tenant says "what S21?" and denies receiving it to buy themselves some more time. The 2 months would then start all over again when you issue a new one.

Absolutely increase the rent. Do some research on what the market rent is, and make sure it is increase in line with it. Issue the correct documentation for the rent increase.

Before the rent increase, I'd mention the increase to the tenant then put the bribery option on the table. "£2000 is all yours if you move out before the end of May 2025..." Put a deadline on the money to move though and still issue the S21.

RHemmings

BikingBud said:

FlorayG said:

80stoyfan said:

theartfullodger said:

Which country ?? (Presumably england??)

The building society found the tenant?? Blimey, who was that then.  We take it all (ALL) rent income has been declared to HMRC..

Have you checked that the s21 will be valid - many many are not... >> e,g, 
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/possession_and_eviction/notices_in_possession_proceedings/what_makes_a_section_21_notice_invalid
&
https://nearlylegal.co.uk/section-21-flowchart/

(It's not just sticking deposit in deposit scheme... a lot lot more...)

You'll realise that s21 does not end tenancy nor compel tenant to leave.  They have  rights to remain from the same act as you have the right to serve s21 (Thatcher's 1988 Housing Act)....

Got all the evidence for CGT ?? (Needs eclaring & paying within 60 days of sale...)

I am asking these questions so that the whole process is done fairly? From what I can gather based on info that I have read plus what you have included I have done what I need to do, just need to know if it is a form 6a I need to give. 
So if the s21 doesn't compel a tenant to leave and you have done everything properly to give them notice, what then? Take them to court? There must be some protection for landlords?

NO, there's no protection for LL and it's about to get worse which is why so many are selling up and getting out of being a LL.
Use the 6A form, issue the S21 with the required notice or longer ( the longer you give them, the longer they have to find elsewhere to live)
Unfortunately as you have not increased the rent for 15 years the tenants are unlikely to be able to find anywhere else they can afford, having lived up to their means all this time, so they will not want to leave and you may have to go to court. This can take as long as 6 months to get tenants to leave
If they want to apply for social housing then they will be required to resist the S21 because if they leave as requested they will be deemed to be 'voluntarily homeless' and the council will not help them
You might consider offering them a financial incentive to leave...or increasing the rent to market value

That's an unsound assumption. You have absolutely no idea about the tenants' financial standing.

They may have been squirrelling away the difference between a mortgage and their rent or a going rate and the rent that they have been very fortunate to have been required to pay and the disposable funds have been invested and accruing gains over 15 years.

This is realistic. It's what I did. Even the 15 years matches. Though, I did have one small rent increase in that time. 

When that ended (house needed electrics completely redone), I moved out into a much more expensive market rent property. So, that happens as well. 

TroubledTarts

After 15 years of renting the same property the tenants will feel like it is their home and quite rightly so.

Tact and diplomacy here, working with them, talking and discussing why you have to sell up and maybe giving them a little time to get moving.

2 months notice after 15 years is a very small timeframe so, if I was int he same position, I would give them 4-6months but on the 4th month issue the section 21.

I don't like the idea of throwing figures of £2k about like others have suggested as that should be a last resort if you can tell things are not going well. The presumption that to get tenants to leave involves landlords handing over money needs nipping in the bud as otherwise tenants will feel entitled to some leaving money.

I feel for the tenants and for yourself.

teaselMay

Agree, please remember this is asking your tenants to leave their home of 15 years. Whilst they've benefited from it, it's not their fault that you've not increased the rent in that time.

My landlord gave me a years notice last year, after 13 years. It took a month to get my head around it and start looking properly rather than panic, another 3 months of being completely ignored, at best, by every estate agent across a huge area (Welsh coast to East of the Peak District) because I'm not working and have dogs, despite a lovely landlord reference (of 13 years) and stable income, no amount of money would have solved that issue.

And then I realised I might be able to use shared ownership and so started saving like a savey thing for a deposit. Thankfully it looks as though I have achieved what felt impossible and we should be moving soon and never have to move unless we want to again.

I'm so glad that I've managed to keep on good terms with my landlord throughout, he's as glad, and relieved, as I am that I've managed to buy, but even more so that I'm not going to be living in my van which felt a very real possibility to us both for quite some time.

Behind the scenes my landlord had tried to sell with me as a tenant - but my rent is slightly low because he's not increased it just this year which was a barrier to that, I did suggest he increase it now. Tried to sell to a housing association with me as tenant (it's an ex council house), put feelers out with local estate agents for me and given them my reference. Reality is the rental market is horrible at the moment.

One thing that was really important when looking for a rental and now that we're waiting for completion, is flexibility. My landlord was happy to end the tenancy as soon as I found a rental to move to and is also now happy to let it roll over until completion if we need to.

Myci85

teaselMay said:

Agree, please remember this is asking your tenants to leave their home of 15 years. Whilst they've benefited from it, it's not their fault that you've not increased the rent in that time.

My landlord gave me a years notice last year, after 13 years. It took a month to get my head around it and start looking properly rather than panic, another 3 months of being completely ignored, at best, by every estate agent across a huge area (Welsh coast to East of the Peak District) because I'm not working and have dogs, despite a lovely landlord reference (of 13 years) and stable income, no amount of money would have solved that issue.

And then I realised I might be able to use shared ownership and so started saving like a savey thing for a deposit. Thankfully it looks as though I have achieved what felt impossible and we should be moving soon and never have to move unless we want to again.

I'm so glad that I've managed to keep on good terms with my landlord throughout, he's as glad, and relieved, as I am that I've managed to buy, but even more so that I'm not going to be living in my van which felt a very real possibility to us both for quite some time.

Behind the scenes my landlord had tried to sell with me as a tenant - but my rent is slightly low because he's not increased it just this year which was a barrier to that, I did suggest he increase it now. Tried to sell to a housing association with me as tenant (it's an ex council house), put feelers out with local estate agents for me and given them my reference. Reality is the rental market is horrible at the moment.

One thing that was really important when looking for a rental and now that we're waiting for completion, is flexibility. My landlord was happy to end the tenancy as soon as I found a rental to move to and is also now happy to let it roll over until completion if we need to.

This sounds similar to my situation. My landlady of 15 years forewarned me that she wanted to sell in the next year or so due to her age and wanting to simplify her affairs so as to not leave her family with lots to sort out. She gave us a 12 month tenancy with the agreement we could leave at any point if we found somewhere to move to. She then ended up doing the same again the next year. Like you, we initially panicked as so few rentals, much higher rents, tied to area for work and schools, and then decided I was going to slog my a**e off saving and working as much as I possibly could to try and save a deposit to buy. After the two years we were mid process of buying and our landlady let us stay on a periodic until we gave notice once contracts exchanged. She was over the moon that we'd managed to buy somewhere and it had all come good for everyone in the end. 
Agree to go in gently as 15 years is a long time for your tenants to have lived in their home, and it isn't so easy to find somewhere to move to these days. I'm sure they'd appreciate as much notice and flexibility as you can give them.

MeteredOut

Myci85 said:

teaselMay said:

Agree, please remember this is asking your tenants to leave their home of 15 years. Whilst they've benefited from it, it's not their fault that you've not increased the rent in that time.

My landlord gave me a years notice last year, after 13 years. It took a month to get my head around it and start looking properly rather than panic, another 3 months of being completely ignored, at best, by every estate agent across a huge area (Welsh coast to East of the Peak District) because I'm not working and have dogs, despite a lovely landlord reference (of 13 years) and stable income, no amount of money would have solved that issue.

And then I realised I might be able to use shared ownership and so started saving like a savey thing for a deposit. Thankfully it looks as though I have achieved what felt impossible and we should be moving soon and never have to move unless we want to again.

I'm so glad that I've managed to keep on good terms with my landlord throughout, he's as glad, and relieved, as I am that I've managed to buy, but even more so that I'm not going to be living in my van which felt a very real possibility to us both for quite some time.

Behind the scenes my landlord had tried to sell with me as a tenant - but my rent is slightly low because he's not increased it just this year which was a barrier to that, I did suggest he increase it now. Tried to sell to a housing association with me as tenant (it's an ex council house), put feelers out with local estate agents for me and given them my reference. Reality is the rental market is horrible at the moment.

One thing that was really important when looking for a rental and now that we're waiting for completion, is flexibility. My landlord was happy to end the tenancy as soon as I found a rental to move to and is also now happy to let it roll over until completion if we need to.

This sounds similar to my situation. My landlady of 15 years forewarned me that she wanted to sell in the next year or so due to her age and wanting to simplify her affairs so as to not leave her family with lots to sort out. She gave us a 12 month tenancy with the agreement we could leave at any point if we found somewhere to move to. She then ended up doing the same again the next year. Like you, we initially panicked as so few rentals, much higher rents, tied to area for work and schools, and then decided I was going to slog my a**e off saving and working as much as I possibly could to try and save a deposit to buy. After the two years we were mid process of buying and our landlady let us stay on a periodic until we gave notice once contracts exchanged. She was over the moon that we'd managed to buy somewhere and it had all come good for everyone in the end. 
Agree to go in gently as 15 years is a long time for your tenants to have lived in their home, and it isn't so easy to find somewhere to move to these days. I'm sure they'd appreciate as much notice and flexibility as you can give them.

From the OP, "I have given them over two months notice verbally and via message", so if the tenant has not at least started planning where they're going to go once formal notice has been provided and followed, thats on them.

Myci85

MeteredOut said:

Myci85 said:

teaselMay said:

Agree, please remember this is asking your tenants to leave their home of 15 years. Whilst they've benefited from it, it's not their fault that you've not increased the rent in that time.

My landlord gave me a years notice last year, after 13 years. It took a month to get my head around it and start looking properly rather than panic, another 3 months of being completely ignored, at best, by every estate agent across a huge area (Welsh coast to East of the Peak District) because I'm not working and have dogs, despite a lovely landlord reference (of 13 years) and stable income, no amount of money would have solved that issue.

And then I realised I might be able to use shared ownership and so started saving like a savey thing for a deposit. Thankfully it looks as though I have achieved what felt impossible and we should be moving soon and never have to move unless we want to again.

I'm so glad that I've managed to keep on good terms with my landlord throughout, he's as glad, and relieved, as I am that I've managed to buy, but even more so that I'm not going to be living in my van which felt a very real possibility to us both for quite some time.

Behind the scenes my landlord had tried to sell with me as a tenant - but my rent is slightly low because he's not increased it just this year which was a barrier to that, I did suggest he increase it now. Tried to sell to a housing association with me as tenant (it's an ex council house), put feelers out with local estate agents for me and given them my reference. Reality is the rental market is horrible at the moment.

One thing that was really important when looking for a rental and now that we're waiting for completion, is flexibility. My landlord was happy to end the tenancy as soon as I found a rental to move to and is also now happy to let it roll over until completion if we need to.

This sounds similar to my situation. My landlady of 15 years forewarned me that she wanted to sell in the next year or so due to her age and wanting to simplify her affairs so as to not leave her family with lots to sort out. She gave us a 12 month tenancy with the agreement we could leave at any point if we found somewhere to move to. She then ended up doing the same again the next year. Like you, we initially panicked as so few rentals, much higher rents, tied to area for work and schools, and then decided I was going to slog my a**e off saving and working as much as I possibly could to try and save a deposit to buy. After the two years we were mid process of buying and our landlady let us stay on a periodic until we gave notice once contracts exchanged. She was over the moon that we'd managed to buy somewhere and it had all come good for everyone in the end. 
Agree to go in gently as 15 years is a long time for your tenants to have lived in their home, and it isn't so easy to find somewhere to move to these days. I'm sure they'd appreciate as much notice and flexibility as you can give them.

From the OP, "I have given them over two months notice verbally and via message", so if the tenant has not at least started planning where they're going to go once formal notice has been provided and followed, thats on them.

Two months notice is the standard required. Unfortunately these days it isn't as easy as just planning where you're going to go, there is a significant shortfall in available rental properties and they get snapped up fast.