Armtrac/BW Legal PCN for parking in own space

Roundy_15

Hello everyone,

Firstly just wanted to say that these forums are superb and really appreciate all the advice posted. My story so far is….
I live in a block of flats (I’m renting) and my flat comes with a designated parking space, the exact wording in the lease is ‘The property includes allocated parking and the tenant is permitted to use only the allocated space at the property’. It does say that I need to display a permit but no where in my lease does it mention parking companies, parking charges or court threats. From what I’ve read on here it sounds like I have primacy of contract and I’ve also read up on Derogation from Grant. Anyway back in August I came out to the car which is obviously parked in my space and have 2 PCN’s from Armtrac stuck on the windscreen. I contacted them stating I live in the flat and have that space but they were having none of it so I’ve totally ignored them since including the letters from their legal dim-wits (BW Legal). I received the Letter of Claim a few weeks ago and replied using the template on the threads and that’s where I am so far. 

I have one question that would like a bit of advice on. The car in question is shared between myself and my partner but is in my partners name, nobody has admitted to being the driver. All the correspondence from Armtrac/BW has been addressed to me because I appealed to Armtrac and now they have my details on file and have passed them to BW. We both signed the LOC response letter. So I’m just wondering what happens from here, my partner is the registered keeper, nobody has admitted to being the driver but all the correspondence is coming to me, does admitting to being the driver matter at this stage? We never got a ‘Notice to keeper’ letter either as Armtrac/BW have just been hounding me instead since I gave them my details.

for info I’m also in the process of writing a complaint letter to the management company of our flats.

Thanks in advance for any help on this.

Coupon-mad

They didn't need to send a NTK once you'd admitted to driving. They can't revert to the keeper when they have the driver's details.

Did the MA refuse to tell Armtrac to cancel the PCNs when you complained?

Why are Armtrac even there? Nothing of service is being done that helps residents.

Roundy_15

So technically I haven’t admitted to driving yet, I just emailed Armtrac initially saying I found 2 PCNs on my car (although it’s actually registered to my partner) but I suppose that doesn’t matter at this stage?
I haven’t written to the management company yet but they are known for being totally unsympathetic towards residents when it comes to PCNs, many residents are elderly and are simply bullied into paying. There’s a long history of residents being bullied by Armtrac/BW at this block of flats. I moved here in June 2024 and got the PCNs in August 2024, I’m as stubborn as a mule though so there’s no way I’m paying these charges.
So right now I’m just waiting for BW Legals response to my LOC response.

Coupon-mad

Roundy_15 said:

... back in August I came out to the car which is obviously parked in my space and have 2 PCN’s from Armtrac stuck on the windscreen.

 I contacted them stating I live in the flat and have that space but they were having none of it so I’ve totally ignored them since including the letters from their legal dim-wits (BW Legal).

I received the Letter of Claim a few weeks ago and replied using the template on the threads and that’s where I am so far. 

I have one question that would like a bit of advice on. The car in question is shared between myself and my partner but is in my partners name, nobody has admitted to being the driver. All the correspondence from Armtrac/BW has been addressed to me because I appealed to Armtrac and now they have my details on file and have passed them to BW.

We both signed the LOC response letter. So I’m just wondering what happens from here, my partner is the registered keeper, nobody has admitted to being the driver but all the correspondence is coming to me, does admitting to being the driver matter at this stage?

We never got a ‘Notice to keeper’ letter either as Armtrac/BW have just been hounding me instead since I gave them my details.

for info I’m also in the process of writing a complaint letter to the management company of our flats.

Thanks in advance for any help on this.

-----------------------------------

Coupon-mad said:

They didn't need to send a NTK once you'd admitted to driving. They can't revert to the keeper when they have the driver's details.

Did the MA refuse to tell Armtrac to cancel the PCNs when you complained?

Why are Armtrac even there? Nothing of service is being done that helps residents.

-----------------------------------

Roundy_15 said:

So technically I haven’t admitted to driving yet, I just emailed Armtrac initially saying I found 2 PCNs on my car (although it’s actually registered to my partner) but I suppose that doesn’t matter at this stage?

I haven’t written to the management company yet but they are known for being totally unsympathetic towards residents when it comes to PCNs, many residents are elderly and are simply bullied into paying.

There’s a long history of residents being bullied by Armtrac/BW at this block of flats.

I moved here in June 2024 and got the PCNs in August 2024, I’m as stubborn as a mule though so there’s no way I’m paying these charges.
So right now I’m just waiting for BW Legals response to my LOC response.

Coupon-mad said:

How horrible for those residents. I hear you about the 'long history' of this abuse of residents by this ex-clamper.

Roundy_15 said:

Wow got the reply from my LOC response. We’re dealing with a serious hot shot legal team here. 

BW Legals response as follows: 

Thank you for contacting us, please find our response below: Good Morning,  We write in response to your recent contact.  For signage containing additional costs: Please be advised, the signage in situ makes reference to additional costs of debt recovery being incurred due to the non-payment of a PCN. It is our Client's position that a contract was formed when your vehicle entered and remained on the land in question, in excess of the grace period, and this included the terms and conditions regarding additional costs. Our Client is satisfied that under the parking contract, the additional costs incurred are recoverable and you are liable for the same.  Please see all PCN evidence attached.  We have placed a 30 day hold on your file to allow you time to seek advice. Please ensure you contact us with an update before 10 May 2025.  We trust this clarifies our position. BW Legal’s pathetic reply clearly doesn’t address any of my questions put to them in the LOC response.  I’ll report them to HMRC but any other recommendations as to where to go from here?

ChirpyChicken said:

Only option is to wait for the court claim.

Useless template reply from BW Legal - do report the VAT concern to HMRC.

This is typical of IPC firms aggressively targeting & pursuing residents up & down the Country, after persuading clueless Managing Agents to let them loose.

But they AREN'T after trespassers. they are after people like you. We see this time and again.

The IPC tell the Government that their IMHO pointless motley crew of ex-wheelclampers issue multiple PCNs to so-called 'repeat offenders' in over a third of all IPC PCNs.

In fact the multi PCN cases are 99% residents who are the repeat victims.

You are not offenders. The PPCs are, and they need removing from most residential car parks asap.

Roundy_15

Wow got the reply from my LOC response. We’re dealing with a serious hot shot legal team here. 

BW Legals response as follows: 

Thank you for contacting us, please find our response below: Good Morning,  We write in response to your recent contact.  For signage containing additional costs: Please be advised, the signage in situ makes reference to additional costs of debt recovery being incurred due to the non-payment of a PCN. It is our Client's position that a contract was formed when your vehicle entered and remained on the land in question, in excess of the grace period, and this included the terms and conditions regarding additional costs. Our Client is satisfied that under the parking contract, the additional costs incurred are recoverable and you are liable for the same.  Please see all PCN evidence attached.  We have placed a 30 day hold on your file to allow you time to seek advice. Please ensure you contact us with an update before 10 May 2025.  We trust this clarifies our position. BW Legal’s pathetic reply clearly doesn’t address any of my questions put to them in the LOC response.  I’ll report them to HMRC but any other recommendations as to where to go from here?

Gr1pr

Wait for a possible future N1SDT court claim pack from the CNBC in Northampton using MCOL which would arrive in the post,  same as all the others that are pursued 

ChirpyChicken

Only option is to wait for the court claim

Roundy_15

Thank you all for advice so far. I’ll update as and when necessary 

Roundy_15

Hi everyone, I don’t have an update since the last comments but I am getting a defence together in case BW Legal want to take this to court. I’ve attached a picture of the signs Armtrac are using in the residents car park at our block of flats. On the bottom right corner it has the Independent Parking Committee logo. I know that this group of gangsters is  now known as the International Parking Community but the signs haven’t been updated to show this. I know BW Legal will say ‘the signage forms a contract’ crap to enforce their case. However,  is a contract null and void if the information on the sign is outdated and incorrect? 

Coupon-mad

is a contract null and void if the information on the sign is outdated and incorrect? 

No. Even if a term in a contract was null and void, it never brings down the whole 'contract'. And the IPC membership name being out of date isn't relevant, so forget that.

You should refer BW Legal to the landmark case about residential parking rights that was ratified by the Supreme Court, so it has the exact same binding clout as Beavis:

 https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/6576d76952aae60ac079d0bd/amp

Have a bit of fun with them.

Do use that case in your defence.

Roundy_15

Ok great, thanks for the advice!