We are Swim - refund policy

Notanexpertmoneysaver

We are Swim - the swimming company linked to Rebecca Adlington and Mark Foster, have a clause in their terms and conditions which requires customers to request a refund within 30 days of a cancelled lesson. I’m a bit baffled by this since they are the ones cancelling the lessons and so they clearly know about it. In my view the refunds should therefore be automatic because they are not providing the service that has been paid for. Does anyone have any knowledge as to whether this clause it legal or at least legally ‘fair’?

The wording is as follows - 

 "Any refund will only be issued if (1) requested by you and (2) requested within 30 days of the date with which the refund is associated (e.g. 30 days from the date that a session is cancelled for any reason). If you would like to request a refund, please use the contact methods and details listed at section K (General)." 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

If they are cancelling the lesson(s) then they should refund, terms can't override that by timing you out.

How much is a lesson and how do you pay?

If it's just one lesson it might be pragmatic to accept a new date. 

DullGreyGuy

Notanexpertmoneysaver said:

We are Swim - the swimming company linked to Rebecca Adlington and Mark Foster, have a clause in their terms and conditions which requires customers to request a refund within 30 days of a cancelled lesson. I’m a bit baffled by this since they are the ones cancelling the lessons and so they clearly know about it. In my view the refunds should therefore be automatic because they are not providing the service that has been paid for. Does anyone have any knowledge as to whether this clause it legal or at least legally ‘fair’?

The wording is as follows - 

 "Any refund will only be issued if (1) requested by you and (2) requested within 30 days of the date with which the refund is associated (e.g. 30 days from the date that a session is cancelled for any reason). If you would like to request a refund, please use the contact methods and details listed at section K (General)." 

Know idea who those people are or why it would be relevant to the question?

What is their proposal in the absence of a request for a refund? That its just a credit towards a later lesson or you've lost it? Presumably you booked X weeks or months of lessons at one a week or something?

Notanexpertmoneysaver

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

If they are cancelling the lesson(s) then they should refund, terms can't override that by timing you out.

How much is a lesson and how do you pay?

If it's just one lesson it might be pragmatic to accept a new date. 

Payment is by direct debit on a monthly basis. This was 3 lessons over a 6 week period for 2 children - so a lot of money. 

Notanexpertmoneysaver

DullGreyGuy said:

Notanexpertmoneysaver said:

We are Swim - the swimming company linked to Rebecca Adlington and Mark Foster, have a clause in their terms and conditions which requires customers to request a refund within 30 days of a cancelled lesson. I’m a bit baffled by this since they are the ones cancelling the lessons and so they clearly know about it. In my view the refunds should therefore be automatic because they are not providing the service that has been paid for. Does anyone have any knowledge as to whether this clause it legal or at least legally ‘fair’?

The wording is as follows - 

 "Any refund will only be issued if (1) requested by you and (2) requested within 30 days of the date with which the refund is associated (e.g. 30 days from the date that a session is cancelled for any reason). If you would like to request a refund, please use the contact methods and details listed at section K (General)." 

Know idea who those people are or why it would be relevant to the question?

What is their proposal in the absence of a request for a refund? That its just a credit towards a later lesson or you've lost it? Presumably you booked X weeks or months of lessons at one a week or something?

It’s relevant in distinguishing from other swim companies with similar names. Also because they trade on their names as former Olympic swimmers.

There is no alternative offered - the money is simply kept by them.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Notanexpertmoneysaver said:

There is no alternative offered - the money is simply kept by them.
This was 3 lessons over a 6 week period for 2 children

If they haven't provided the service due to them not supplying and aren't offering you a credit/future date they need to refund.

It's simple breach of contract, if this were permitted everyone would be offering services, cancelling and then keeping the money if the customer didn't ask for it! 

I don't know anything about this company, are you contracting with We are Swim or are they like a header company and you have a contract with a local pool/teacher? You need to make sure you chase the right company/person for the refund but if We are Swim are a header company complaining to them direct might help, as might a factual posting on their social media about your experience.  

Can you post a copy of (personal info redacted) or link to their terms OP? 

In any event if you can't get them to agree to refund/offer the lessons you need to send a letter before action (cost of a stamp and there are templates on Google, probably decent ones on Which or CAB websites), if that doesn't nudge them you have to look at small claims. 

sheramber

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Notanexpertmoneysaver said:

There is no alternative offered - the money is simply kept by them.
This was 3 lessons over a 6 week period for 2 children

If they haven't provided the service due to them not supplying and aren't offering you a credit/future date they need to refund.

It's simple breach of contract, if this were permitted everyone would be offering services, cancelling and then keeping the money if the customer didn't ask for it! 

I don't know anything about this company, are you contracting with We are Swim or are they like a header company and you have a contract with a local pool/teacher? You need to make sure you chase the right company/person for the refund but if We are Swim are a header company complaining to them direct might help, as might a factual posting on their social media about your experience.  

Can you post a copy of (personal info redacted) or link to their terms OP? 

In any event if you can't get them to agree to refund/offer the lessons you need to send a letter before action (cost of a stamp and there are templates on Google, probably decent ones on Which or CAB websites), if that doesn't nudge them you have to look at small claims. 

Would it not be quicker and cheaper just to request a refund within 30 days as stated above.

IThe OP hasn't said they have refused refund, only appears to be complaining about having to claim it  rather than it being automatic.

Notanexpertmoneysaver

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Notanexpertmoneysaver said:

There is no alternative offered - the money is simply kept by them.
This was 3 lessons over a 6 week period for 2 children

If they haven't provided the service due to them not supplying and aren't offering you a credit/future date they need to refund.

It's simple breach of contract, if this were permitted everyone would be offering services, cancelling and then keeping the money if the customer didn't ask for it! 

I don't know anything about this company, are you contracting with We are Swim or are they like a header company and you have a contract with a local pool/teacher? You need to make sure you chase the right company/person for the refund but if We are Swim are a header company complaining to them direct might help, as might a factual posting on their social media about your experience.  

Can you post a copy of (personal info redacted) or link to their terms OP? 

In any event if you can't get them to agree to refund/offer the lessons you need to send a letter before action (cost of a stamp and there are templates on Google, probably decent ones on Which or CAB websites), if that doesn't nudge them you have to look at small claims. 

Thank you! What I’d really like is for them to change their Ts&Cs / issue automatic refunds. I can get them to over ride their policy on an individual basis by phoning to complain but I’m sure many others are dissuaded by their email responses declining the refund request. 

Are there other avenues worth exploring to achieve that? 

Notanexpertmoneysaver

sheramber said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Notanexpertmoneysaver said:

There is no alternative offered - the money is simply kept by them.
This was 3 lessons over a 6 week period for 2 children

If they haven't provided the service due to them not supplying and aren't offering you a credit/future date they need to refund.

It's simple breach of contract, if this were permitted everyone would be offering services, cancelling and then keeping the money if the customer didn't ask for it! 

I don't know anything about this company, are you contracting with We are Swim or are they like a header company and you have a contract with a local pool/teacher? You need to make sure you chase the right company/person for the refund but if We are Swim are a header company complaining to them direct might help, as might a factual posting on their social media about your experience.  

Can you post a copy of (personal info redacted) or link to their terms OP? 

In any event if you can't get them to agree to refund/offer the lessons you need to send a letter before action (cost of a stamp and there are templates on Google, probably decent ones on Which or CAB websites), if that doesn't nudge them you have to look at small claims. 

Would it not be quicker and cheaper just to request a refund within 30 days as stated above.

IThe OP hasn't said they have refused refund, only appears to be complaining about having to claim it  rather than it being automatic.

That’s right - it’s the policy that I think is unfair and possibly illegal. They confirm the cancellation and then knowingly keep hold of the customer’s money. I can’t see any reasonable argument for saying they the customer must then notify them of the cancellation within 30 days and ask for their money back for a service which wasn’t provided.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

sheramber said:

Would it not be quicker and cheaper just to request a refund within 30 days as stated above.

IThe OP hasn't said they have refused refund, only appears to be complaining about having to claim it  rather than it being automatic.

I assumed that option had expired  

Notanexpertmoneysaver said:

Are there other avenues worth exploring to achieve that? 

Technically it's something for Trading Standards but they are under funded and there are a lot of companies, including for example national retailers, with some questionable terms that sadly continue to go unchecked.

Whilst I understand the indignation it's probably not a crusade to embark upon  

saajan_12

You're never going to force them to change T&Cs prospectively. Tons of contracts across industries have unfair, unenforceable terms.. perhaps out of negligence, perhaps in the hopes that the other party will just comply because its written down and make the company's life easier. 

The customer's recourse would be 
* negotiate, ideally before agreeing by refusing to agree unless the terms are changed or by convincing them throuhg publicity etc.
* wait for a claim and let a court decide to not enforce the unfair term. 

The latter means if / when there is a cancellation and if the refund notice is not given in time, then claim a refund from the company, raising it to a small claims court. If its an utterly unfair term then usually the judge would ignore that term and order a refund despite no request within 30 days.