Which AMEX card

WillPS

DullGreyGuy said:

WillPS said:

Amex - Nectar, Cashback (not everyday) or Vitality (see the link upthread for guidance)

Mastercard - Santander Edge or Barclaycard Avios (autotransferred to Nectar)

Would be very bad decisions if your preferred rewards are Avios and Reward Flights

1 - it isn't, as confirmed by OP

2 - I disagree. Nectar Amex and Barclaycard Avios are the default choices of many Avios collectors from what I read on Head for Points.

DullGreyGuy

WillPS said:

DullGreyGuy said:

If you dont like the idea of First/Business then MR probably arent for you, it's how you get a decent return on the points. If you use them to discount an economy ticket it will be at 0.5p/point and if you use them to book an economy ticket outside of BA Reward Flights it will be vastly less than that (if starting from the UK) but will be a flexible ticket.  With the higher tier flights you can comfortably achieve 2p/point and occasionally much more 

It's not a "good return" unless it's something you would otherwise pay the full price for.

If you are regularly paying cash prices for first class flights, then this should be the benchmark you value your points against.

If not, you're opting out of saving money and instead spending money to get something you otherwise could not afford.

Neither is objectively the right or wrong approach, but one is Money Saving and the other is the opposite.

I partially disagree, just because you wouldnt/couldnt afford cash price doesnt mean there is no value in what you are receiving. I agree that I wouldn't value a first class flight at the £10,000 face value of the ticket but neither am I going to say its only worth the £800 that an economy ticket on the same flight would have been. Where it lies between the two is difficult to say and people have argued many times before if you should simply value the free transfers at private taxi rates or bus given thats what you would have done had they not sent a car to collect you. 

Personally, on a very long flight, particularly at night, there is a value to being able to close the door and lay down flat on a bed rather than being sat in a seat with a kid behind kicking the seat the whole flight. Maybe that doesnt apply to you and its the only way you can sleep.

WillPS said:

DullGreyGuy said:

WillPS said:

Amex - Nectar, Cashback (not everyday) or Vitality (see the link upthread for guidance)

Mastercard - Santander Edge or Barclaycard Avios (autotransferred to Nectar)

Would be very bad decisions if your preferred rewards are Avios and Reward Flights

1 - it isn't, as confirmed by OP

2 - I disagree. Nectar Amex and Barclaycard Avios are the default choices of many Avios collectors from what I read on Head for Points.

1) Confirmed afterwards, you got lucky, it was still bad advice without knowing the OPs preferences

2) Show me a link where HfP says to get a Barclays Avios and auto transfer to Nectar? 

Emily_Joy

WillPS said:

DullGreyGuy said:

If you dont like the idea of First/Business then MR probably arent for you, it's how you get a decent return on the points. If you use them to discount an economy ticket it will be at 0.5p/point and if you use them to book an economy ticket outside of BA Reward Flights it will be vastly less than that (if starting from the UK) but will be a flexible ticket.  With the higher tier flights you can comfortably achieve 2p/point and occasionally much more 

It's not a "good return" unless it's something you would otherwise pay the full price for.

If you are regularly paying cash prices for first class flights, then this should be the benchmark you value your points against.

If not, you're opting out of saving money and instead spending money to get something you otherwise could not afford.

Neither is objectively the right or wrong approach, but one is Money Saving and the other is the opposite.

I normally don't fly business either, but a flight on BA to Europe is usually 9K Avios, which would be 9K Nectar points that worth 45 GBP... taking into account BA flies from Heathrow or London City and Avios tickets come with luggage allowance, it actually worth it in my view. Especially if you need to book at the last minute.

WillPS

Emily_Joy said:

WillPS said:

DullGreyGuy said:

If you dont like the idea of First/Business then MR probably arent for you, it's how you get a decent return on the points. If you use them to discount an economy ticket it will be at 0.5p/point and if you use them to book an economy ticket outside of BA Reward Flights it will be vastly less than that (if starting from the UK) but will be a flexible ticket.  With the higher tier flights you can comfortably achieve 2p/point and occasionally much more 

It's not a "good return" unless it's something you would otherwise pay the full price for.

If you are regularly paying cash prices for first class flights, then this should be the benchmark you value your points against.

If not, you're opting out of saving money and instead spending money to get something you otherwise could not afford.

Neither is objectively the right or wrong approach, but one is Money Saving and the other is the opposite.

I normally don't fly business either, but a flight on BA to Europe is usually 9K Avios, which would be 9K Nectar points that worth 45 GBP... taking into account BA flies from Heathrow or London City and Avios tickets come with luggage allowance, it actually worth it in my view. Especially if you need to book at the last minute.

Remember to factor the taxes and stuff, but yeah if you can get real value from it vs what you'd actually pay for a ticket (with any airline you'd possibly fly with) then that is genuine money saving. It certaintly isn't impossible but airmiles schemes in general are structured such that they focus the account-holders attention on how to get maximal value from their points, which is an entirely different equation from how they can best use their points to actually save them money. The Nectar conversion scheme is an unusual opportunity to get a real terms valuation; I suspect it has not gone at all as Avios/BA expected it would.

WillPS

DullGreyGuy said:

WillPS said:

DullGreyGuy said:

If you dont like the idea of First/Business then MR probably arent for you, it's how you get a decent return on the points. If you use them to discount an economy ticket it will be at 0.5p/point and if you use them to book an economy ticket outside of BA Reward Flights it will be vastly less than that (if starting from the UK) but will be a flexible ticket.  With the higher tier flights you can comfortably achieve 2p/point and occasionally much more 

It's not a "good return" unless it's something you would otherwise pay the full price for.

If you are regularly paying cash prices for first class flights, then this should be the benchmark you value your points against.

If not, you're opting out of saving money and instead spending money to get something you otherwise could not afford.

Neither is objectively the right or wrong approach, but one is Money Saving and the other is the opposite.

I partially disagree, just because you wouldnt/couldnt afford cash price doesnt mean there is no value in what you are receiving. I agree that I wouldn't value a first class flight at the £10,000 face value of the ticket but neither am I going to say its only worth the £800 that an economy ticket on the same flight would have been. Where it lies between the two is difficult to say and people have argued many times before if you should simply value the free transfers at private taxi rates or bus given thats what you would have done had they not sent a car to collect you. 

Personally, on a very long flight, particularly at night, there is a value to being able to close the door and lay down flat on a bed rather than being sat in a seat with a kid behind kicking the seat the whole flight. Maybe that doesnt apply to you and its the only way you can sleep.

If you'd buy the tickets anyway, then it's genuine money saving.

If you wouldn't pay the price but you are happy to forgo the equivalent of whatever you could earn if you were genuinely money saving; then you are not and cannot be money saving. To repeat myself - this isn't to say this is objectively the wrong approach; life is full of opportunities and not all of them are possible if you maximally money save the entire time. If anyone decides this is the approach they go for then all power to them.

DullGreyGuy said:

WillPS said:

DullGreyGuy said:

WillPS said:

Amex - Nectar, Cashback (not everyday) or Vitality (see the link upthread for guidance)

Mastercard - Santander Edge or Barclaycard Avios (autotransferred to Nectar)

Would be very bad decisions if your preferred rewards are Avios and Reward Flights

1 - it isn't, as confirmed by OP

2 - I disagree. Nectar Amex and Barclaycard Avios are the default choices of many Avios collectors from what I read on Head for Points.

1) Confirmed afterwards, you got lucky, it was still bad advice without knowing the OPs preferences

2) Show me a link where HfP says to get a Barclays Avios and auto transfer to Nectar? 

1 - there was rather a large clue on the first post

2 - obviously you wouldn't autoconvert your avios away to Nectar if you were collecting Avios...

Emily_Joy

WillPS said:

Emily_Joy said:

WillPS said:

DullGreyGuy said:

If you dont like the idea of First/Business then MR probably arent for you, it's how you get a decent return on the points. If you use them to discount an economy ticket it will be at 0.5p/point and if you use them to book an economy ticket outside of BA Reward Flights it will be vastly less than that (if starting from the UK) but will be a flexible ticket.  With the higher tier flights you can comfortably achieve 2p/point and occasionally much more 

It's not a "good return" unless it's something you would otherwise pay the full price for.

If you are regularly paying cash prices for first class flights, then this should be the benchmark you value your points against.

If not, you're opting out of saving money and instead spending money to get something you otherwise could not afford.

Neither is objectively the right or wrong approach, but one is Money Saving and the other is the opposite.

I normally don't fly business either, but a flight on BA to Europe is usually 9K Avios, which would be 9K Nectar points that worth 45 GBP... taking into account BA flies from Heathrow or London City and Avios tickets come with luggage allowance, it actually worth it in my view. Especially if you need to book at the last minute.

Remember to factor the taxes and stuff, but yeah if you can get real value from it vs what you'd actually pay for a ticket (with any airline you'd possibly fly with) then that is genuine money saving. It certaintly isn't impossible but airmiles schemes in general are structured such that they focus the account-holders attention on how to get maximal value from their points, which is an entirely different equation from how they can best use their points to actually save them money. The Nectar conversion scheme is an unusual opportunity to get a real terms valuation; I suspect it has not gone at all as Avios/BA expected it would.

Taxes and stuff are factored in. During the last couple of years I got a few flights from Heathrow to the continent for 50p + 9250 Avios.

DullGreyGuy

WillPS said:

Emily_Joy said:

WillPS said:

DullGreyGuy said:

If you dont like the idea of First/Business then MR probably arent for you, it's how you get a decent return on the points. If you use them to discount an economy ticket it will be at 0.5p/point and if you use them to book an economy ticket outside of BA Reward Flights it will be vastly less than that (if starting from the UK) but will be a flexible ticket.  With the higher tier flights you can comfortably achieve 2p/point and occasionally much more 

It's not a "good return" unless it's something you would otherwise pay the full price for.

If you are regularly paying cash prices for first class flights, then this should be the benchmark you value your points against.

If not, you're opting out of saving money and instead spending money to get something you otherwise could not afford.

Neither is objectively the right or wrong approach, but one is Money Saving and the other is the opposite.

I normally don't fly business either, but a flight on BA to Europe is usually 9K Avios, which would be 9K Nectar points that worth 45 GBP... taking into account BA flies from Heathrow or London City and Avios tickets come with luggage allowance, it actually worth it in my view. Especially if you need to book at the last minute.

Remember to factor the taxes and stuff, but yeah if you can get real value from it vs what you'd actually pay for a ticket (with any airline you'd possibly fly with) then that is genuine money saving. It certaintly isn't impossible but airmiles schemes in general are structured such that they focus the account-holders attention on how to get maximal value from their points, which is an entirely different equation from how they can best use their points to actually save them money. The Nectar conversion scheme is an unusual opportunity to get a real terms valuation; I suspect it has not gone at all as Avios/BA expected it would.

Reward Flights are the exception to the normal rules, the cash element is pretty much nominal, last one I booked was £0.50 for Economy or £1 for Business for LHR to east coast of Italy. Tends to be limited to short haul flights though and some airports are a bit more. 

By paying the extra 50p for Business you get the extra luggage allowance as mentioned above plus remember Reward Flights are almost fully flexible other than the 24 hour notice for cancellation. Obviously this is short haul flights so in most cases "business" just means the middle seat is folded down into a table rather than having a lay flat bed, a meal on crockery or a Hermes amenities kit etc

WillPS

Emily_Joy said:

WillPS said:

Emily_Joy said:

WillPS said:

DullGreyGuy said:

If you dont like the idea of First/Business then MR probably arent for you, it's how you get a decent return on the points. If you use them to discount an economy ticket it will be at 0.5p/point and if you use them to book an economy ticket outside of BA Reward Flights it will be vastly less than that (if starting from the UK) but will be a flexible ticket.  With the higher tier flights you can comfortably achieve 2p/point and occasionally much more 

It's not a "good return" unless it's something you would otherwise pay the full price for.

If you are regularly paying cash prices for first class flights, then this should be the benchmark you value your points against.

If not, you're opting out of saving money and instead spending money to get something you otherwise could not afford.

Neither is objectively the right or wrong approach, but one is Money Saving and the other is the opposite.

I normally don't fly business either, but a flight on BA to Europe is usually 9K Avios, which would be 9K Nectar points that worth 45 GBP... taking into account BA flies from Heathrow or London City and Avios tickets come with luggage allowance, it actually worth it in my view. Especially if you need to book at the last minute.

Remember to factor the taxes and stuff, but yeah if you can get real value from it vs what you'd actually pay for a ticket (with any airline you'd possibly fly with) then that is genuine money saving. It certaintly isn't impossible but airmiles schemes in general are structured such that they focus the account-holders attention on how to get maximal value from their points, which is an entirely different equation from how they can best use their points to actually save them money. The Nectar conversion scheme is an unusual opportunity to get a real terms valuation; I suspect it has not gone at all as Avios/BA expected it would.

Taxes and stuff are factored in. During the last couple of years I got a few flights from Heathrow to the continent for 50p + 9250 Avios.

Sweet, and what's the (estimated) cost of the flight you'd actually booked if you didn't have the Avios?

[Sounds very good value btw, just would like to conclude the point with a true representative value]

DullGreyGuy

WillPS said:

Emily_Joy said:

WillPS said:

Emily_Joy said:

WillPS said:

DullGreyGuy said:

If you dont like the idea of First/Business then MR probably arent for you, it's how you get a decent return on the points. If you use them to discount an economy ticket it will be at 0.5p/point and if you use them to book an economy ticket outside of BA Reward Flights it will be vastly less than that (if starting from the UK) but will be a flexible ticket.  With the higher tier flights you can comfortably achieve 2p/point and occasionally much more 

It's not a "good return" unless it's something you would otherwise pay the full price for.

If you are regularly paying cash prices for first class flights, then this should be the benchmark you value your points against.

If not, you're opting out of saving money and instead spending money to get something you otherwise could not afford.

Neither is objectively the right or wrong approach, but one is Money Saving and the other is the opposite.

I normally don't fly business either, but a flight on BA to Europe is usually 9K Avios, which would be 9K Nectar points that worth 45 GBP... taking into account BA flies from Heathrow or London City and Avios tickets come with luggage allowance, it actually worth it in my view. Especially if you need to book at the last minute.

Remember to factor the taxes and stuff, but yeah if you can get real value from it vs what you'd actually pay for a ticket (with any airline you'd possibly fly with) then that is genuine money saving. It certaintly isn't impossible but airmiles schemes in general are structured such that they focus the account-holders attention on how to get maximal value from their points, which is an entirely different equation from how they can best use their points to actually save them money. The Nectar conversion scheme is an unusual opportunity to get a real terms valuation; I suspect it has not gone at all as Avios/BA expected it would.

Taxes and stuff are factored in. During the last couple of years I got a few flights from Heathrow to the continent for 50p + 9250 Avios.

Sweet, and what's the (estimated) cost of the flight you'd actually booked if you didn't have the Avios?

[Sounds very good value btw, just would like to conclude the point with a true representative value]

Depends on what you want to match to?

Economy hand luggage only £152
Economy hold luggage £218
Economy hold + Flexible (the nearest comparison) £325
Business no flex £534
Business flex (nearest like for like) £644

Change to LGW and Vueling instead of BA and its £42 small bag only, plus £128 if you want hold luggage and/or £60 if you want a cabin luggage plus £25 if you want flexible

Depending where you live LGW or LHR may be cheaper. BA includes food/drink onboard Vueling doesnt. The £1 business class travel include lounge access too so depends what food/drink you may have bought at the airport. 


It's the variables that make it hard to give a definitive answer because a reward flight always includes luggage and flexibility which you may or may not have needed. Flex in particular is difficult as many dont buy it on cash tickets but then some become unstuck when something happens and they cannot change their flights. 

Emily_Joy

WillPS said:

Emily_Joy said:

WillPS said:

Emily_Joy said:

WillPS said:

DullGreyGuy said:

If you dont like the idea of First/Business then MR probably arent for you, it's how you get a decent return on the points. If you use them to discount an economy ticket it will be at 0.5p/point and if you use them to book an economy ticket outside of BA Reward Flights it will be vastly less than that (if starting from the UK) but will be a flexible ticket.  With the higher tier flights you can comfortably achieve 2p/point and occasionally much more 

It's not a "good return" unless it's something you would otherwise pay the full price for.

If you are regularly paying cash prices for first class flights, then this should be the benchmark you value your points against.

If not, you're opting out of saving money and instead spending money to get something you otherwise could not afford.

Neither is objectively the right or wrong approach, but one is Money Saving and the other is the opposite.

I normally don't fly business either, but a flight on BA to Europe is usually 9K Avios, which would be 9K Nectar points that worth 45 GBP... taking into account BA flies from Heathrow or London City and Avios tickets come with luggage allowance, it actually worth it in my view. Especially if you need to book at the last minute.

Remember to factor the taxes and stuff, but yeah if you can get real value from it vs what you'd actually pay for a ticket (with any airline you'd possibly fly with) then that is genuine money saving. It certaintly isn't impossible but airmiles schemes in general are structured such that they focus the account-holders attention on how to get maximal value from their points, which is an entirely different equation from how they can best use their points to actually save them money. The Nectar conversion scheme is an unusual opportunity to get a real terms valuation; I suspect it has not gone at all as Avios/BA expected it would.

Taxes and stuff are factored in. During the last couple of years I got a few flights from Heathrow to the continent for 50p + 9250 Avios.

Sweet, and what's the (estimated) cost of the flight you'd actually booked if you didn't have the Avios?

[Sounds very good value btw, just would like to conclude the point with a true representative value]

Let us assume one wants to fly from London to Warsaw on the 21st of May, mid-day. This would be Wednesday before late May bank holiday. Avios Economy: 11750 + 50p =  59.25 GBP (base value). This includes fully flexible ticket and luggage. BA at 2pm from LHR. Business: 252GBP or 20000 Avios + 12.50GBP = 112.50 GBP. 

BA cost: 131GBP economy basic (hand luggage only, not flexible); 178GBP checked-in luggage, 60GBP change fee; 224GBP semi-flex (changeable, not refundable); Business: 252GBP. 

The nearest would be Wizzair from LTN at 15:05, 62GBP base fare + 11GBP flex + 46.50 GBP luggage + 31.50 GBP cabin bag = 151GBP. 

Another option is LOT at 10am from LHR (assuming one can get there by 8am after a decent sleep) Economy Saver 92GBP, standard 118, fully flex 138; business semi-flex 180.