Energy ombudsman question

J1107

Hi there, 

looking for if anyone has some advice either from direct experience or what they think the outcome will be. 

I have finally got to the end of a very longe complaint process and after months of accusations they have admitted I am not responsible for the fault of my metre being tampered with and it in fact happened about 2 years before I moved into the property. 

I am being billed for about 18months of electricity usage and I queried about back billing, my energy provider told me that the back billing rules do not apply to this case as the metre has been tampered with, regardless of if I was responsible for the tamper. 

Does anyone know if this is true if tried to look on ofgem but can’t find anything?

The energy provider also told me that the energy ombudsman won’t consider a revenue protection case as it’s a 3rd party reference but I’m fairly sure that’s not true.

They said I should have noticed the lower than usual usage and reported it, and because I didn’t I am at fault. They have also said that they sent me emails asking if everything was okay as I hadn’t topped up recently however in that email it also says if you have topped up recently or if your metre is still in credit to ignore this email as it might take a while to sync so to ignore the email, my metre was never not in credit. So I never responded to those emails and I’m worry that will be seen as me being at fault. I received 3 of these email, about 6months between first and second, 1 month between second and 3rd, then a month after 3rd metre change and accusation of tampering. 

My offer from energy provider 
-  goodwill of £150 (they accused me for 3 months and the evidence I was innocent was on my account the entire time I provided nothing new) 
- removal of revenue protection charge £200 (which I think should be removed as they admitted I wasn’t responsible but they say is valid because I didn’t report the low usage) so they are removing it as a sort of goodwill 
- 18months of back billing for me to pay 

I am cautious of going to the energy ombudsman and losing this goodwill as well if the ombudsman says backbilling is correct in this case. However I am not sure if back billing is and the back billing difference from 18months to 12 Is about £850. 

Anyone have any advice? 

TroubledTarts

Realistically you haven't paid for energy, not through your actions but you have still paid for energy.

It must have been a horrible situation being blamed for tampering and the battle with probably useless customer service (just a guess)

I think in this situation I would just move on and pay the bill, presumably you have been saving that money away for usage each month anyway?

J1107

TroubledTarts said:

Realistically you haven't paid for energy, not through your actions but you have still paid for energy.

It must have been a horrible situation being blamed for tampering and the battle with probably useless customer service (just a guess)

I think in this situation I would just move on and pay the bill, presumably you have been saving that money away for usage each month anyway?

Thanks your response! 

Oh yeah I completely understand that if my top ups weren’t covering the full amount then I need to make those payments, and I didn’t notice the  usage being off but I do have emergency funds I can dip into if needed so no going concern there. 

Definitely the levels of accusation, and they changed their “evidence” 3 or 4 times and everytime I challenged they said it’s policy and they had reviewed the account and were certain it was me etc etc. 

I think there levels of usage, then telling me I couldn’t go to the energy ombudsman with this case as it was outside influence, subtly dropping debt collection agency even if I did raise to ombudsman was disgusting. Even though I was sure I didn’t do it I even considered and paying all the bill to not have these threats and the stress looming over. And I am sure many people would have paid who have been through a similar thing.

Given what I said originally about paying back what I owe I do mean that, but I fell like back billing may apply here and the way I was treated makes me want to challenge it the to ombudsman’s but I don’t want to end up even more out of pocket by doing so. They just keep coming I with new reason for charges to remain whenever I disprove the original reason for it being there which I don’t feel is 

I also think the ombudsman needs to ensure that energy providers don’t keep saying that this case won’t be handled by the ombudsman when no fairly sure it would be.

MeteredOut

Personally, if I honestly didn't notice that the correct amount of energy was not being charged, and I could not have realistically expected to have noticed that, then I'd take it to the Ombudsman.

But if I think a lay person should have noticed that the usage was not being billed correctly, I'd probably take their offer.

MattMattMattUK

How was the meter tampered with, had the previous occupant done it, had someone obtained access to your property and tampered with the meter?

J1107

MattMattMattUK said:

How was the meter tampered with, had the previous occupant done it, had someone obtained access to your property and tampered with the meter?

I don’t know. 

Orginally they said the metre was reversing and that this begun to happen about half way through my liability period. 

Eventually I got the metre readings from them and they had failed to include one of the two rates they recorded and when included showed it was no longer reversing. 

They then changed and said there was a tamper in the month I moved in, and that this was a metre avoidance, and so the value basically was moving very slowly 

Then I challenged that for metre readings of the actual property and it showed the same trend since 2 years prior to me moving in (maybe further back but I didn't get that info) 

they continue to stand by that I was responsible as my usage trend was the issue. After pointing out again the trend they sent me.

 I was eventually then told the team had then reviewed the account again and it wasn’t me (I probably asked around 5-10 times for evidence and a review the entire time but this finally happened after 12 weeks).

I don’t know what the metre isn’t actually is, and they won’t send me the picture of the tamper at my property as that’s their evidence.

QrizB

So, as things currently stand your supplier agrees that you haven't tampered with the meter, has removed the revenue protection charge and has offered you a goodwill credit of £150.

Have they replaced the meter?

They still want you to pay £850 for energy they say you've used but haven't paid for. How did they work this out? Does it seem reasonable?

How much have you actually been paying, do you have a complete record of your payments since you moved in?

J1107

QrizB said:

So, as things currently stand your supplier agrees that you haven't tampered with the meter, has removed the revenue protection charge and has offered you a goodwill credit of £150.

Have they replaced the meter?

They still want you to pay £850 for energy they say you've used but haven't paid for. How did they work this out? Does it seem reasonable?

How much have you actually been paying, do you have a complete record of your payments since you moved in?

Thanks for you comment. 

As it currently  stands yes. Only slight thing, they have not removed the revenue protection charge as of now, part of their settlement is to remove it. They argue it’s still valid for reasons I said above and will remove it as goodwill if I take their offer. 

Metre has been replaced. 

They want me to pay nearly £2.8k less my top ups. Using their calculations it will knock off about £850 if the back-billing rule applies, which I am not sure if it will or not but they are adamant it won’t apply. (But they were also adamant I tampered…) 

How they calculated the charges is using the allowed averages.
They did tell me that if I go to the ombudsman that they will use my current usage as new estimate, in which it will be higher, I argued they wouldn’t use just my current usage as it’s only winter months, they insisted ombudsman would but I believe that’s also not the case. 

Top ups is a more contentious one, I was on pay as you go, they say I topped up x amount, I disagree with their amount as it’s lower then I have thought, but because its cash only to top up anywhere I have no bank records and I haven’t kept receipts from long ago. So I’ve just had to accept that part as a loss because I have no evidence to contradict them with so that is probably final. 

QrizB

Is your property all electric? That's the only way that £2800 makes sense for two years of electricity.

It's unfortunate about the top ups but I think you're going to have to trust their figures unless you can prove that they're wrong.

The reason I ask about the top ups is that, even if back billing does apply, they can allocate your top ups against the "disallowed" part of the bill so you end up paying for a full year's electricity. If you're using £1400 a year and have topped up £1200 during the two years, applying back billing will only reduce your debt by £200.

On the plus side, the rules for recovering debt from PAYG customers mean that they should take a slice from every top up rather than asking you to pay it all at once.

Is your new meter a smart one, so you can top up online and see your account status on their website?

J1107

QrizB said:

Is your property all electric? That's the only way that £2800 makes sense for two years of electricity.

It's unfortunate about the top ups but I think you're going to have to trust their figures unless you can prove that they're wrong.

The reason I ask about the top ups is that, even if back billing does apply, they can allocate your top ups against the "disallowed" part of the bill so you end up paying for a full year's electricity. If you're using £1400 a year and have topped up £1200 during the two years, applying back billing will only reduce your debt by £200.

On the plus side, the rules for recovering debt from PAYG customers mean that they should take a slice from every top up rather than asking you to pay it all at once.

Is your new meter a smart one, so you can top up online and see your account status on their website?

Thanks again for your time,

Didn’t think about that part of the back billing and how they could use it in that way but it doesn’t surprise me. 

Yes a smart metre now all on my account and done as a direct debit. 

I was reading through the deadlock letter again and it mentions “”If the Ombudsman agrees that our offer to you is fair, they will instruct us to apply the resolution mentioned above””

Out of interest if you or anyone else knows, does  this mean that I could raise it to the ombudsmen maybe they find the back billing unfair and I save money,
Or they could find the electricity providers offer fair in which case I’m back to their offer? 

I’m basically wondering if there is an outcome in which I lose out on all of this goodwill and reduction in charges and end up paying more by taking it to the ombudsmans, but I don’t know if that does happen/in theory could. 

QrizB

J1107 said:

I was reading through the deadlock letter again and it mentions “”If the Ombudsman agrees that our offer to you is fair, they will instruct us to apply the resolution mentioned above””
Out of interest if you or anyone else knows, does  this mean that I could raise it to the ombudsmen maybe they find the back billing unfair and I save money,
Or they could find the electricity providers offer fair in which case I’m back to their offer? 

I’m basically wondering if there is an outcome in which I lose out on all of this goodwill and reduction in charges and end up paying more by taking it to the ombudsmans, but I don’t know if that does happen/in theory could.

The "goodwill" bits are currently discretional on the part of your supplier.

If you go to the Ombudsman, they will reach their own conclusion. It might not be as generous as the goodwill payments that your supplier is currently offering. Or it might be more generous; it will depend on the merits of your case and any applicable laws / licence conditions / industry best practice.

So you can accept the current offer or roll the dice with the Ombudsman.