Had my PIP appeal hearing today, feeling really confused and disheartened

vitaminz

Hi I claimed for PIP back in 2022 due to Dyspraxia and Sensory Processing Disorder that I’ve had since I was a young child, along with depression and anxiety.

My dyspraxia and SPD generally cause me issues that fall under the care component- I cannot use cutlery properly, cannot use kitchen appliances due to my clumsiness and forgetfulness, and some other things such as budgeting. I was awarded standard rate mobility due to me not going out and my anxiety, but nothing for the care component. Based on some advice from family friends I asked for a mandatory reconsideration, which failed and I then appealed it. I have since been diagnosed with ADHD which helps explain some of issues with attention and motivation , and I sent some evidence to the appeal team when I got diagnosed last year.

I finally had the hearing (phone call) and it was terrible. I felt like whatever I was saying was being twisted. For example - I have struggled with cutlery all my life and never use it, I don’t have the coordination to, say, hold something steady with a fork and cut at the same time. And I am extremely accident prone so that’s another reason. They pressed on this for a while and ended up asking if I could use the side of a fork to ‘cut’ some mashed potato? I said yes, and at the end of the call the presenting officer recommended I get 0 points because of this. 

With cooking, i struggle not only because of my clumsiness and coordination issues but what in now is caused by my ADHD - even with timers etc I’ll end the timer and end up forgetting. I was quizzed about my job as a software developer and how I manage to keep attention on that - I explained I don’t, and my manager has always called me out on playing on my phone and web browsing. No matter how I try I can’t stop myself from doing these. But my employer now understands my diagnosis and as long as I get the work done they’re happy. I also find it easier because coding is generally a passion of mine and as it’s a stimulating activity for me it’s not as bad as household things. The presenting officer against suggested 0 points for cooking etc because if I can get by with my job then there’s no way I can have issues at home

It got me questioning myself and whether I should have even bothered. I know the presenting officer just ‘suggests’ points but what are the chances the appeal time will look past their recommendations? They said I’ll have a decision in the post. I’m kind of resigned to the fact it’ll be unsuccessful but just want to know if anyone had a similar experience 

Muttleythefrog

Yeah it sounds like you had a difficult experience... some do with appeals although most tend to report good experiences. There is the problem of extrapolations of facts.... usually more keenly felt in assessments themselves where facts obtained are extrapolated (extended in inference) to justify descriptor choice. e.g. 'Attended normal schools and a university 20 years ago - cannot have reading problems'

I must admit "I was quizzed about my job as a software developer and how I manage to keep attention on that" - is a problem you might struggle to get around the fact of. As a former software developer myself it was an incredibly demanding technical and attention related job... poor memory... poor focus... poor efficiency... poor manual dexterity.. poor maths would never have been tolerated. You may have found ways to function around these things and you may have a sympathetic boss... if these things are true I think you're going to have to be pre-emotive in tackling assumptions the job you do will facilitate or encourage in assessors or others who take decision on entitlement. Similarly someone who enjoys watching and photographing wildlife but can't leave the home due to severe anxiety needs to point out they enjoy this hobby through their living room window.

Assuming you are unhappy with appeal outcome... I'm not sure on best advice... except don't give up if you truly do consider you should get a better award/an award.

tacpot12

You certainly should have bothered, and I don't think you should write off the process, even if you are ultimately unsuccessful. It's probably best to try to accept that the decision is whatever it will be, and deal with it when you have the decision. 

Spoonie_Turtle

If the decision is unfavourable you can ask for a statement of reasons.  Then you'll need to get advice to see if there's an error of law to enable you to challenge it.  (Their reasoning that you've written here sounds faulty but I am not an expert and I don't know whether drawing erroneous conclusions from facts is classed as an error of law.)

It may be that you genuinely just don't score enough descriptors to qualify, but I'd certainly advise seeking accredited advice to see if that is the case before giving up.

vitaminz

Muttleythefrog said:

Yeah it sounds like you had a difficult experience... some do with appeals although most tend to report good experiences. There is the problem of extrapolations of facts.... usually more keenly felt in assessments themselves where facts obtained are extrapolated (extended in inference) to justify descriptor choice. e.g. 'Attended normal schools and a university 20 years ago - cannot have reading problems'

I must admit "I was quizzed about my job as a software developer and how I manage to keep attention on that" - is a problem you might struggle to get around the fact of. As a former software developer myself it was an incredibly demanding technical and attention related job... poor memory... poor focus... poor efficiency... poor manual dexterity.. poor maths would never have been tolerated. You may have found ways to function around these things and you may have a sympathetic boss... if these things are true I think you're going to have to be pre-emotive in tackling assumptions the job you do will facilitate or encourage in assessors or others who take decision on entitlement. Similarly someone who enjoys watching and photographing wildlife but can't leave the home due to severe anxiety needs to point out they enjoy this hobby through their living room window.

Assuming you are unhappy with appeal outcome... I'm not sure on best advice... except don't give up if you truly do consider you should get a better award/an award.

Yeah I do see what you mean - for me, and I didn’t really understand this until my ADHD diagnosis, it’s more a case of being able to ‘hyper focus’ as I obviously find it very interesting. But I’d say the majority of the time I’m not hyper focused and have disciplinaries from work for not working as I should. I’m just lucky i work for something I have a passion for as when I last had a regular job I got sacked within 2-3 months lol

But thanks everyone, it’s difficult because I’ve been like this all my life and I feel bad thinking I’m ‘entitled’ to things but my partner, family etc have all encouraged me to peruse this as they know me well, and so had some other advisors have spoken to.

But I don’t know what taking it further. I do recall on the phone at the end the man did advise the tribunal to give me some points for certain things so maybe that’ll be enough, I really don’t know 

Muttleythefrog

vitaminz said:

But I don’t know what taking it further. I do recall on the phone at the end the man did advise the tribunal to give me some points for certain things so maybe that’ll be enough, I really don’t know 

When you have the outcome things might be clearer. Unfortunately as Spoonie advises you could only appeal if you think there is an error of law but in most cases this won't be realistic an option and for most even where relevant they will need some expertise to help. Error of law means the tribunal failed to apply the law.. that's very different than you disagree with the decision... statement of reasons for the decision would need to be requested to get an idea if any error of law has been made.

If you do get an award you're unhappy with then it is difficult to advise other than always have in mind an honest appraisal of what you should score across the activity descriptors and therefore what award you should get. Other people encouraging claims and courses of action in relation to such can be helpful but be mindful often they may or may not be well placed technically to back up their enthusiastic support... you will know as you know them... sometimes other people can be better at evaluating disability on the the hand... the disabled person usually would be the best but not necessarily as some may not fully appreciate the disabilities they have. The length of award if you get one might set you up for a logical reassessment time to try to argue a case for better descriptors.. in one sense a short award may have value in that regard. If you don't get award at all (which would be a surprise and disappointing given you challenged a decision that awarded standard mobility) then a new claim option may make sense.

HillStreetBlues

vitaminz said:

 They pressed on this for a while and ended up asking if I could use the side of a fork to ‘cut’ some mashed potato? I said yes, and at the end of the call the presenting officer recommended I get 0 points because of this.

On this point I do feel there is an error of law, to do a task it needs to be done reliably, in a timely fashion, repeatedly and safely.
Reliably is meant to as reasonable standard, I don't see just being about to cut a soft food like mash to be that, I can't see how that is a reasonable standard.
This in just my opinion, but I certainly wouldn't be happy with their thinking.

vitaminz

Thanks both, I’m hoping I get their decision tomorrow or some point this week - will update on here 

vitaminz

So I had the decision today - I was awarded 10 points so I qualify took me by surprise. Thanks all