Drop Kerb refused as 20cm short

Gomezn1

 I recently applied for a drop kerb but got refused from the council. - See below response and how i can respond.

I am writing to you with reference to your recent application for a vehicle crossover at the above address.

In permitting vehicle accesses over footways, we have to balance the needs of pedestrians against residents' common law right of access to their property. Therefore, we have set standards which achieve an equal balance to these competing needs.

I have given your application careful consideration and I am of the opinion that the current vehicle crossover guidance notes and policy have been appropriately applied and consequently, for the following reasons your application has been refused.

Our current standards state that the hardstand for a single width access is 5m x 2.7m. Unfortunately your hard stand is just under 4.79m deep which will cause parked vehicles to overhang the footway and obstruct pedestrians, which in turn will have implications on highway safety.

flashg67

Can't see a way out unless you can extend the other way by 21cm!

Gomezn1

@flashg67 the funny point is they just recently increased the requirments from 4.8 to 5m, and i have 3 people on the street that have drop kerbs!!

Section62

Gomezn1 said:

 I recently applied for a drop kerb but got refused from the council. - See below response and how i can respond.

I am writing to you with reference to your recent application for a vehicle crossover at the above address.

In permitting vehicle accesses over footways, we have to balance the needs of pedestrians against residents' common law right of access to their property. Therefore, we have set standards which achieve an equal balance to these competing needs.

I have given your application careful consideration and I am of the opinion that the current vehicle crossover guidance notes and policy have been appropriately applied and consequently, for the following reasons your application has been refused.

Our current standards state that the hardstand for a single width access is 5m x 2.7m. Unfortunately your hard stand is just under 4.79m deep which will cause parked vehicles to overhang the footway and obstruct pedestrians, which in turn will have implications on highway safety.

How much would you be willing to spend (on top of the cost of the physical construction works) to get this approved?

Interesting they have mentioned the common law right... most councils don't and instead claim something along the lines that S184 of the Highways Act makes it illegal to drive across the footway (which isn't very truthful).  That the authority are aware of the common law right might indicate there is some scope for negotiation.

Ayr_Rage

They have to have a standard and you haven't met that, that's life.

Gomezn1

@Section62 I will put an appeal through showing that it has been done next door and also on the other street, so unsure why they havent been given notice on their kerbs

born_again

Anyway you can park your car sideways in front of house, so there is no risk of overhanging the path?

Only way I could see to appeal. 

What people have now, is not a argument. As they may find that if their car does overhang the path they start to get tickets.

Section62

Ayr_Rage said:

They have to have a standard and you haven't met that, that's life.

Not entirely.  There is nothing in S184 requiring a minimum depth, so the standard used by this council is a matter of policy.  Other councils apply different standards.

This council's decision to adopt and adhere to a 5m minimum depth has to be 'Wednesbury reasonable'.  The OP could - if they are willing to spend the money - start a process of challenging the decision on the basis it isn't 'Wednesbury reasonable', and the starting point for that may be asking the council (politely) to reconsider their decision on the basis of further information.

Most decisions councils make are subject to challenge - if necessary by judicial review - that's life.

Section62

Gomezn1 said:

Section62 I will put an appeal through showing that it has been done next door and also on the other street, so unsure why they havent been given notice on their kerbs

I don't think there is much point in doing that.  Each decision is made on its own merits, so the council can respond that the other ones were allowed because the policy was different at the time, or it was a bit further away from a junction/tree/streetlight or whatever.  Or simply say the other one was approved in error.

Because you are near their required standard it might be worth asking them to consider the approach other councils have when they have removed or significantly reduced their standards.  This approach is to ask the homeowner to enter into a legal agreement (as a deed) which is entered into the land charges register for the property.  The agreement - which is also binding on future owners/occupiers - can simply require that no part of a vehicle parked on the hardstanding should overhang the footway/verge/crossover.

In essence this replaces the 5m minimum, and legally is far more effective as the 5m minimum doesn't stop people parking longer cars on their driveway, or parking Xm away from the front of the house so the back end overhangs the footway.

If the council don't yet use the agreement approach then they should really be thinking about it, so may be receptive to the idea if you present it the right way.

Have you looked at what other councils in the area say in their crossover policies?

ic

Gomezn1 said:

@flashg67 the funny point is they just recently increased the requirments from 4.8 to 5m, and i have 3 people on the street that have drop kerbs!!

Cars keep getting bigger, I guess they're ensuring the standards reflect that.

Standards will only apply to new installs, and won't be applied retrospectively to everybody else.

Section62

ic said:

Gomezn1 said:

@flashg67 the funny point is they just recently increased the requirments from 4.8 to 5m, and i have 3 people on the street that have drop kerbs!!

Cars keep getting bigger, I guess they're ensuring the standards reflect that.
...

Some councils are removing or reducing their minimum depth requirement because there has been an increase in popularity of smaller/micro cars.  Going the opposite direction with no flexibility is an odd approach to take.