Building Regs completion cert for old loft conversion

Albermarle

I know this is a regular topic, but a family member is getting conflicting advice from conveyancer and surveyor, so would like some informed comment if possible please.
Property is a bungalow converted to a dormer bungalow in the 1980's.
Solicitor has received detailed paperwork, drawings etc relating to planning permission granted in January 1987, but no building regs completion certificate. Solicitor says one is not needed, as they were not issued at that time, and only came in later.
However a surveyor that has been contacted, said they would be reluctant to go ahead without seeing the certificate, as otherwise they would have to mention in their survey report that they could not be sure the structure was safe. They said in 1987 ( assuming that is when the work was actually done) a building regs completion certificate would have been issued.
The solicitor disagrees and said it was also very unusual for a surveyor to be asking for paperwork before a survey. Is this true ?
Googling seems to indicate that building regs completion certs were not generally issued until around 1990, but it is not 100% clear. Anybody know any definite info about this ?

user1977

Does the surveyor think there are any actual problems? After almost 40 years I doubt there are going to be sudden surprises. Bringing it up to 2025 standards seems like overkill. 

Albermarle

user1977 said:

Does the surveyor think there are any actual problems? After almost 40 years I doubt there are going to be sudden surprises. Bringing it up to 2025 standards seems like overkill. 

The surveyor has not even seen it, but as soon as he was contacted he said without him seeing a certificate in advance, he would be forced to make a negative report. 
I have had a good look around the property and can see no issues. In fact the owner had been a builder and had done it himself, and lived there for 35 years. We met his son who had helped, so we know the backstory quite well.

It is not clear to me or the solicitor that a certificate would have even be possible to have been issued around that time ( 1987/1988) ?

user1977

Sound absurd to me. How old is the rest of the house and what paperwork exists for that? 

pretamang

What type/level of survey are you getting?

A general level survey will flag this as they cannot be sure it was built correct to building regs. The negative report will likely say that a further specialist survey is required.

If you're happy with that outcome then fine; but if you (or your lender) needs more than this then you will have to get a specialist structural survey to ensure that it's safe. Depending on how it is built this could be a fairly high level visual inspection, or they may need to be more invasive which could include opening up walls, floors and ceilings. Probably about £500 to £1,000

stuart45

Final certificates weren't issued until the 90's, the years vary from council to council. Records are still available in councils. The years they go back varies in different councils. Also the older records cost more to check, as a lot are still kept on paper.

Section62

Albermarle said:

It is not clear to me or the solicitor that a certificate would have even be possible to have been issued around that time ( 1987/1988) ?

It will depend on the location as there were local requirements prior to the 1984 Act, which itself didn't apply universally until some time later.  There's also a difference whether a local authority could issue a completion 'notice/certificate' and if they must issue one.

So the surveyor is not necessarily wrong that a particular council may have been issuing a completion document in the 1980's.

However,I agree with stuart45 that this was largely an early 1990's thing.  Para 15 of the 1991 Regulations states "A local authority shall give a completion certificate in accordance with this regulation..." (my emphasis) whereas the 1985 regs don't include such a provision.

Before the 1990's it was the "passing of plans" which was the thing that really mattered. I remember doing a DIY job in 1992 and the BCO being very enthusiastic about me getting round to finishing it so he could issue a completion certificate and get the job out of his pending tray. I didn't understand the fuss as the plans had been passed.  In the end he didn't bother doing a final inspection and just issued the certificate.  Times have changed.

Albermarle

stuart45 said:

Final certificates weren't issued until the 90's, the years vary from council to council. Records are still available in councils. The years they go back varies in different councils. Also the older records cost more to check, as a lot are still kept on paper.

So if we assume that the building works were completed by 1988, then it is normal that no final/completion certificate is available ?

stuart45

It's quite likely that your local council didn't issue them back then. They might still have something on record. Going back in time further, a lot of people didn't bother to get Building Control back for a final, as it affected the rates value.

gwynlas

The work was completed prior to this surveyor being qualified and if no certificates issued at that time then all they can go on is the evidence of planning permission.

It might be that it would not reach current standards but this is an issue for everything but new builds

Albermarle

Thanks for your useful replies.
The vendors solicitors have now also replied along similar lines, to what the family members solicitors said.

'To the best of our knowledge completion certificates only became obligatory in the early '90s, and one does not exist'

As after nearly 40 years, everything looks fine, they are just going to go ahead and if the surveyor sticks to their line, then get a different surveyor ( shame if so as seems good otherwise with excellent reviews) or downgrade to a Level 2.

They are not worried about the lender who has already approved the mortgage with a desktop valuation, and there is a low LTV.