Hot water tank

magpies79

So i have heard a strange sound coming from hot water tank last few months and it's like a clicking almost like a clock clicking fast and I think it's coming from this pump 
no issues with heating or water and that white dial has 3 settings it's on 1 when it's moved to 2 or 3 it's louder and faster.

is this a circulation pump? 

WIAWSNB

Yes, it's a circulation pump, tho' a wider pic would help confirm this.

It would appear to be installed incorrectly, with the bleed screw - and hence the end bearing - uppermost, which means the bearing won't be lubricated correctly by the water, so leading to early bearing failure. (Assuming this pump is like others).

magpies79

I've owned this house for well nearly 23 years so maybe time to invest in a new one and installed the right way then lol 

 Hopefully a better pic  

nofoollikeold

From the photograph you won't be able to replace with one in a correct orientation without pipework alterations.  

Albermarle

23 years is quite a long time for a pump to last even when correctly fitted AFAIK.
The 1, 2,3 are the speed settings, so not surprising if it is on its last legs that increasing the speed increases the noise.

Speed 1 is a bit slow for most houses, as it means it takes longer for the heating to heat up from cold, and in a bigger house it night means some radiators struggling to heat up at all. Probably OK for a smaller property, and probably being on a slow speed is why it has lasted so long !

magpies79

Yeah I'll probably look into getting it changed then lol 
it's a 2 bed semi but like I said no issues with heating or hot water had a issue a year or 2 ago with one radiator bled it been fine since it's the noise that's annoying but 23 years isn't bad I guess haha 
thanks 

WIAWSNB

magpies79 said:

I've owned this house for well nearly 23 years so maybe time to invest in a new one and installed the right way then lol

 Hopefully a better pic  

Yes, thanks. Mind you, an even wider one would show just how much plumbing tweaks could be required... :-)

Actually, there's a reasonable chance you'll get away with a straight swap. First, how about a teeny experiment?

With the CH off so the pump isn't running, wrap a towel firmly around the pump leaving only that round blue label showing at the top. Now get a large flat-bladed screwdriver, and slacken that large screw in the middle - one or two turns.

Ok, I can see you panicking - no need. The worse that will happen is that a tiny dribble of water will start to come out - that's why the towel is there, and you mustn't let the control box on the side get wet (it won't...)

You don't need to undo that short screw fully, just slacken it a couple of turns and listen - can you hear a hissss of escaping air? Keep waiting unti you see water appear around the edge of the screw head, and then retighten it. See if that makes a difference to the noise.

The bearings in these pumps are meant to be immersed in the system water - that's what lubricates them. In your case, chances are that little bubbles of air have ended up at the top there, and left the bearing dry. This is worth trying, and really isn't a risk.

If the pump is really 23+ years old, however, then it's done you proud, and no surprise it's on the way out. Something to try - get a tape measure or ruler, and measure from the centre of the pump pipework (yellow line) to the floor (yellow arrow), pressing into the carpet if you need to. What gap do you have? If it's 44mm or more, then the Grunfos Alpha should be squeezable in there. 

The pump body can be turned to pump in the right direction, and the motor body screwed back on so its horizontal, with the electrics at the top.

The 'standard' Grundfos pump - the UPS? - is slightly thicker (Dim B2 below) at 47mm, but is a cheaper model. There's also a 'Mini' version designed for fitting inside boilers, but I don't have the dims for this - and it's stupidly expensive. 

Shop carefully, and you could pick up an Alpha for under £100; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/365468078238 (but get your plumber to confirm end fitting size and stuff).

If you can get a pump to fit without replumbing, then it's a very easy job for a plumber (or DIYer). If, however, you do need to replumb a bit, then consider adding a magnetic filter to your boiler return when your system is drained down - it'll help to preserve your whole system.

magpies79

Sorry just seen this Reply thank you for taking the time for your detailed reply I'm at work tonight so when I get chance I'll try this tomorrow and let you know how it goes thanks again 

WIAWSNB

Just realised, that's a Wilo Gold pump, and it also has a removable motor head. That means if there is room - that ~47mm space between the pipe centre and floor - then your existing pump can be mounted correctly too. That might not be enough to save it this time as I suspect the damage has been done, but it would indicate an incorrect installation from day one, and a possibly even easier fix - just a new head.

In essence, the water is shut off at the two gate valves either end, the power supply cut to the pump, and the two allen key screws undone - yellow arrow. The head is tapped off, the gasket cleaned up, a smear of sealant applied, and the head refitted after rotating it through 180 degrees. The two large pipes nuts are then slackened, and the whole pump rotated towards you until the white control knob is now at the top. If there's room, this is an easy half-hour task for a plumber.

If the existing head is kaput, then good second hand ones can be had for around £35+. That would likely keep it all running until you change your whole heating system.

magpies79

Hello so unscrewed the top and wasn't really any hissing at all water started leaking pretty much straight away as you stated tightened back up and still making the same noise you did mentioned to try while CH is off which I did the hot water is set to come on twice a day heating is controlled by thermostat downstairs.

the noise I can hear I hear all the time regardless if heating is on or hot water is being heated so would this definitely point to it being shot?.

I'll try dig out my tape measure my father in law is good with this sort of thing so if it's a straight swap out he could do it.

WIAWSNB

magpies79 said:

Hello so unscrewed the top and wasn't really any hissing at all water started leaking pretty much straight away as you stated tightened back up and still making the same noise you did mentioned to try while CH is off which I did the hot water is set to come on twice a day heating is controlled by thermostat downstairs.
the noise I can hear I hear all the time regardless if heating is on or hot water is being heated so would this definitely point to it being shot?
I'll try dig out my tape measure my father in law is good with this sort of thing so if it's a straight swap out he could do it.

Ok, so it wasn't a lack of lubricating water in there, fair enough. It's likely just kaput from 20+ years of graft.

Yes, if it ticks whilst it's running, then likely the bearings are worn - no great surpise. The 'ticking' is definitely from the pump? It could well still keep going for ages!

If fil is au fait with such things, then he'll definitely be able to suss whether a new pump will fit in there with the correct alignment, and be able to do this. He'll have lots of options.