Extension next door and border question.

Southgatenotgareth

Just wondering I have a pipe on wall attached to neighbours. Was there 18 years ago when moved in. Was actually going to remove myself cause wanted somewhere else anyway. However neighbour has now demanded in be removed and given 7 days formal notice to remove (from an email) or else he will get someone to come and remove. Anyway I was speaking with someone and they said it would like their extension is on party wall line. The neighbour actually had planning application for ground floor extension (moving current extension out further) and was withdrawn. When I look at the plans the line of the current extension is on the borderline. So the redline of the border goes down middle of the houses and the extension at the rear follows this line. Just wondering if legally I’m not allowed to attach anything to this wall as of where it is positioned. 

grumpy_codger

If it's his wall, not a party wall (i.e. the wall is on his land), then no, you aren't allowed.

sheenas

It sounds to me that the pipe goes down the wall which forms the border. So to remove the pipe someone would need access to your property, which you don't have to grant?  You would need to read the deeds and understand the border ownership arrangements to know exactly whats what.
I would simply email back saying that that anyone entering your property and causing criminal damage will be prosecuted. Further explaining as a gesture of good will, your happy to move the pipe within the next 3 months. 

WIAWSNB

Southgatenotgareth said:

Just wondering I have a pipe on wall attached to neighbours. Was there 18 years ago when moved in. Was actually going to remove myself cause wanted somewhere else anyway. However neighbour has now demanded in be removed and given 7 days formal notice to remove (from an email) or else he will get someone to come and remove. Anyway I was speaking with someone and they said it would like their extension is on party wall line. The neighbour actually had planning application for ground floor extension (moving current extension out further) and was withdrawn. When I look at the plans the line of the current extension is on the borderline. So the redline of the border goes down middle of the houses and the extension at the rear follows this line. Just wondering if legally I’m not allowed to attach anything to this wall as of where it is positioned. 

Hard to tell what exactly is going on here from your description.

What is this 'wall' - is it part of your own extension? And what does the pipe do? Any suggestion of how long it has been there prior to you moving in? For example, if it is on your extension, seemingly part of that construction, and this was added, say, 25 years ago, then you can most likely determine that the pipe has also been there for that time.

Have you looked at their plans carefully, to check it doesn't impinge on your property excessively in other ways - gutter overhangs, stuff like that?

If this pipe serves a valid purpose - eg water supply, waste pipe to an underground drain, boiler flue, condensate pipe, etc - then they cannot just remove it as this would cause damage to your property, and potential further harm. They would need to go through the correct process, which I imagine would involve a court injunction for starters, but I'm not clued up on this. So, I'd suggest that - no - you do not have to remove it unless they take legal action, and neither can they before doing this. 

Depending on what this pipe is, and whether there is an alternative route, you may (I don't know) have also gained an easement for its use, in which case they could be in an even trickier situation.

However, assuming their extension plans are 'fair enough', then I guess you should be looking to be neighbourly and not put unreasonable hurdles in their way. But any alterations to that pipe should be carried out at their expense.

From what you describe - and we only have your side, of course - they would appear to be not very reasonable or conciliatory in their approach so far, and if this is typical of their modus, I'd be inclined to be looking to engage a PWA surveyor at their expense should the build progress, and also make sure your Legal Protection cover is healthy.

Section62

sheenas said:

It sounds to me that the pipe goes down the wall which forms the border. So to remove the pipe someone would need access to your property, which you don't have to grant?  You would need to read the deeds and understand the border ownership arrangements to know exactly whats what.
I would simply email back saying that that anyone entering your property and causing criminal damage will be prosecuted. Further explaining as a gesture of good will, your happy to move the pipe within the next 3 months. 

As the OP was planning to remove the pipe anyway, then wouldn't the more rational thing be to just remove the pipe, rather than risk engaging in a legal battle - which could get expensive - and potentially have a neighbour dispute to declare when the OP comes to sell?

Regarding the first BiB, assuming the whole wall belongs to the neighbour then they could go to court to obtain an order requiring the OP to remove the pipe and/or allow the neighbour to enter the property to carry out necessary work.

Regarding the second BiB, it would be for the police and CPS (assuming this is England) to decide whether a prosecution for criminal damage would be appropriate... threatening to prosecute your neighbour for criminal damage is a weak threat, which is also unlikely to achieve a sensible resolution.

macman

this really is one of those situations where a picture tells a thousand words...

Southgatenotgareth

So here’s tap. I mean it should be removed and it’s something we plan to do anyway. But I had issue of being demanded to do it and threat to come on my property and remove. So was looking into doing and sent photo and was asked it was on the borderline. So just looked into further. The wall on fence is my neighbours. So I remembered they had a planning application which they withdraw to extend the current extension. On the plans their current extension wall is on the red line. So not concerned about now (except for demands) but just thinking if in future they submit plans for future what I can do. I imagine that if they wanted to extent further the would have to build foundations but that would come over to my side of border which I would not agree to.

Southgatenotgareth

tap just garden tap. Been there 18 years

Section62

Southgatenotgareth said:

So here’s tap. I mean it should be removed and it’s something we plan to do anyway. But I had issue of being demanded to do it and threat to come on my property and remove. So was looking into doing and sent photo and was asked it was on the borderline. So just looked into further. The wall on fence is my neighbours.

Just cross them off your christmas card list.  It is annoying when people act like this, but there's little point turning something into a full blown wall when you were planning to do it anyway.

A tap attached to their wall is a bit more of an issue than a plain service pipe or cable - the tap could cause a damp problem with their wall (and the fence) so you aren't likely to 'win' if you take it all the way to court.

Southgatenotgareth said:

So I remembered they had a planning application which they withdraw to extend the current extension. On the plans their current extension wall is on the red line.

Did you comment on or object to the planning application?

Southgatenotgareth said:

So not concerned about now (except for demands) but just thinking if in future they submit plans for future what I can do. I imagine that if they wanted to extent further the would have to build foundations but that would come over to my side of border which I would not agree to.

If they go down the Party Wall Act route you may not be in a position to stop them.  There's already a potential maintenance issue with the two existing extensions being built so close together but with a gap.  It would make sense to agree a shared party wall approach if the neighbour wants to extend further so you wouldn't have this issue if you (or a future owner) decided to extend again as well.