Unreasonable charges - Octopus

Chrysalis

Since you already on zero balance, variable DD is the proper fix, only pay for what you billed.  The over stated DD is probably down to the flawed EAC system they use to estimate annual cost.  It can get it horribly wrong.

masonic

dander said:

I'm not saying I'm not capable of setting a sensible amount. I just think it's incredibly unethical to try and force me into such an extreme overpayment in the first place. This is exactly the kind of behaviour I thought Octopus had been set up to fight against. If this is the output of some kind of AI algorithm, then Octopus need to seriously reconsider the way they are using them. 

They are now a large supplier. Their conduct is generally better than other large suppliers, but all businesses must eventually turn their attention to generating profits for shareholders, and that inevitably means excellent customer service must be watered down.

MeteredOut

dander said:

I'm not saying I'm not capable of setting a sensible amount. I just think it's incredibly unethical to try and force me into such an extreme overpayment in the first place. This is exactly the kind of behaviour I thought Octopus had been set up to fight against. If this is the output of some kind of AI algorithm, then Octopus need to seriously reconsider the way they are using them. 

Can computer algorithms be unethical?

(it won't be AI behind the calculation - just normal run of the mill software)

Ildhund

dander said:

I have ended this winter just under £400 in debit to them, ...

While it's not formulated as a clear requirement, you seem to have been in breach of this clause in the Octopus T&Cs:

8.3   When paying by direct debit: ... you should keep your account in credit ...

So perhaps they're not being completely unreasonable. 

Scot_39

dander said:

I'm not saying I'm not capable of setting a sensible amount. I just think it's incredibly unethical to try and force me into such an extreme overpayment in the first place. This is exactly the kind of behaviour I thought Octopus had been set up to fight against. If this is the output of some kind of AI algorithm, then Octopus need to seriously reconsider the way they are using them. 

It's a reaction to your rapid debt build up.

£400 isn't a huge amount by many standards - but when compare versus the old payment level in £1500-£400 = £1100 annualised budget - that's a 35% increase.

And a potential step change in use patterns. 

Possibly concentrated in last few months of illness and so the algorithm could have been factoring in an even higher more localised shift.

They may even be specifically tuned to catch sudden large increases in use as a debt avoidance measure.  Whilst ignoring the seasonal and habitual noise in others data sets.  Think say a small undetected gas leak in an external cabinet etc 

Or it could just be a simple mistake.

The solutions are simple.

Do the calc yourself and ask them to set the DD to it.

Or phone in a set of readings and ask them to redo tge calc.  Pre smart when did that at EOn by phone and not portal it nearly always triggered an annual estimate and if reqd a DD discussion.  I normally worked backwards - Normally though they accepted my number which pre portal account etc - I used to have to phone in my DD calc - and when phoned to set they asked for readings to cross check it.

superkoopauk

MeteredOut said:

dander said:

I'm not saying I'm not capable of setting a sensible amount. I just think it's incredibly unethical to try and force me into such an extreme overpayment in the first place. This is exactly the kind of behaviour I thought Octopus had been set up to fight against. If this is the output of some kind of AI algorithm, then Octopus need to seriously reconsider the way they are using them. 

Can computer algorithms be unethical?

(it won't be AI behind the calculation - just normal run of the mill software)

I guess it is the people who decided what the algorithms should do that are potentially the unethical ones?

t0rt0ise

So you've had a £400 interest free loan through the winter so it's understandable that they don't want it to happen again.

wrf12345

Even if you up the £400 to £500 to include increasing costs that is still only an increase of £40-ish but having said that nearly all the big energy companies are at the same game, partly powered by Ofgem rules on debt and partly powered by greed, get the money in before they are sussed by the new government. I know that it all evens out in the end but some of the billing programs, at some times, go into Gonzo mode, wiping out the old bills and generating fantasy bills that will scoop up as much money as they can get away with - plenty of examples on this site, not to mention back billing as well. Octopus seem the least likely to do this at the moment but that can change on a whim.