RTS Meter Replacement - 4 or 5-Terminal Smart Meter?

Phones4Chris

Were they left an IHD (In Home Display) with the new meter? Or were they left an Octopus Mini?
Do they have a Smart phone?

TCA

An IHD was left but will likely end up in a drawer. I find the app is better anyway. Usage data appeared very quickly, which is how I spotted the hot water being heated in peak hours instead of E7. That now looks to have been corrected via an ALCS schedule, so everything looks fine. Will test the storage heaters at some point.

Phones4Chris

@TCA Have you managed to identify the working circuits in the Wylex box?
Btw, an IHD could still be useful for them, if set to show present usage in W/kW, if they know what their typical background usage is, and roughly what load various things have, they can deduce if something is switched on or has been left switched on.

TCA

Hi @Phones4Chris. I haven't got round to tripping the buttons in the Wylex box yet.

Just finished running a storage heater test (on a single unit) to check usage. It charged up correctly in E7 times but even at half input setting ran for over 5 hours, which not unsurprisingly used a lot of juice. At a guess, around 18kWh, costing about £2.60

I don't know the power rating of the heater and I'll check, but I've no reason to doubt the consumption figures in the Octopus app. I'm sure that gives plenty output (mum didn't monitor exactly) but this'll require some experimentation in colder weather.

Even at Economy 7 prices, although I shouldn't be, I'm surprised at the cost for using just one storage heater when you see it in pounds and pence. Definitely some more testing required with the input and output settings, but will wait until it's colder.

QrizB

TCA said:

Just finished running a storage heater test (on a single unit) to check usage. It charged up correctly in E7 times but even at half input setting ran for over 5 hours, which not unsurprisingly used a lot of juice.

The first charge from stone cold is always expensive. Usually you're just putting back whatever you took out the day before.

TCA

QrizB said:

TCA said:

Just finished running a storage heater test (on a single unit) to check usage. It charged up correctly in E7 times but even at half input setting ran for over 5 hours, which not unsurprisingly used a lot of juice.

The first charge from stone cold is always expensive. Usually you're just putting back whatever you took out the day before.

Ah, that would make sense. Thanks.

The heaters have been off for over a year given they were on the standard variable tariff and so ditched in favour of the log burning stove.

Waiting until a period of prolonged use will be better for testing then.

Phones4Chris

QrizB said:

TCA said:

Just finished running a storage heater test (on a single unit) to check usage. It charged up correctly in E7 times but even at half input setting ran for over 5 hours, which not unsurprisingly used a lot of juice.

The first charge from stone cold is always expensive. Usually you're just putting back whatever you took out the day before.

Exactly, and just over 5hrs and circa 18kWh would suggest it's a 3.4kW storage heater, probably just over 1metre wide.

TCA

Phones4Chris said:

@TCA Have you managed to identify the working circuits in the Wylex box?

I finally got round to the Wylex box.

Don't know if it's useful but a rough description of the house is that it's on two floors plus a landing inbetween for the bathroom (and where a phone table, lamp and router sit). Two bedrooms upstairs and downstairs is a living room, hallway, dining room (with walk-in cupboard where the hot water cylinder is), conservatory and kitchen.   

Here's what I found and it seems a bit of a mixed bag:

45A - all the kitchen (lights, washing machine, cooker, fridge, freezers, microwave), light in cupboard off dining room, living room lights and other sockets except the tv, bathroom, landing sockets (lamp and internet router) and all upstairs sockets

30A - just the conservatory

15A (left) - TV socket in living room, dining room lighting (and I think sockets too), upstairs ceiling light and bedroom lights (not sockets) 

15A (right) - hallway light, phone socket on landing inbetween floors (seems odd given other sockets on 45A but I think correct)  

Any thoughts on all that?

Phones4Chris

@TCA ****** **** (unprintable)!
That 45A is a bit of a horror. Considering the age of the installation, I'd hope that 1) the cable being used for that circuit was at least 7/.044 if it's wired as some sort of ring and 2) I'd also hope there was at least one fused spur for those lights!
However I'm struggling to see how that circuit ever complied with the IEE wiring regs even back then!
Have a look for at least one fused spur for those lights - unless of course they are all on plug and socket?
Likewise look for any fused spurs for the lights on the other circuits.

The "issue" for the lights not on fused spurs (not so bad on the 15A circuits) is where you have any pendants etc with circuits rated 30A/45A etc is that the drop wires would be a potential hazard if there were any faults as they won't safely handle the short circuit currents, and similarly (modern) standard light switches - at least thankfully they are trips in the Wylex box rather than wired fuses!

You haven't mentioned that 40A MCB.

Frankly, I would get someone competent to see how all that lot are actually wired up and identify any serious potential horrors which there very well could be. It doesn't need to be a qualified electrician at this point, just someone who knows what they are talking about. THEN you'd need a qualified electrician to do any rewiring etc.

TCA

Phones4Chris said:

@TCA ****** **** (unprintable)!
That 45A is a bit of a horror. Considering the age of the installation, I'd hope that 1) the cable being used for that circuit was at least 7/.044 if it's wired as some sort of ring and 2) I'd also hope there was at least one fused spur for those lights!
However I'm struggling to see how that circuit ever complied with the IEE wiring regs even back then!
Have a look for at least one fused spur for those lights - unless of course they are all on plug and socket?
Likewise look for any fused spurs for the lights on the other circuits.

The "issue" for the lights not on fused spurs (not so bad on the 15A circuits) is where you have any pendants etc with circuits rated 30A/45A etc is that the drop wires would be a potential hazard if there were any faults as they won't safely handle the short circuit currents, and similarly (modern) standard light switches - at least thankfully they are trips in the Wylex box rather than wired fuses!

You haven't mentioned that 40A MCB.

Frankly, I would get someone competent to see how all that lot are actually wired up and identify any serious potential horrors which there very well could be. It doesn't need to be a qualified electrician at this point, just someone who knows what they are talking about. THEN you'd need a qualified electrician to do any rewiring etc.

Re the 40A MCB - I tripped it and everything still worked, so I've no idea what's going on there.

Re the 45A:

 - the living room lighting is via half a dozen wall lights. 4 lights are operated by a double light switch (no fused spur) and the other 2 lights are operated by a single switch with a fused spur.

- looking in the kitchen, 2 under counter freezers and an under counter fridge are operated with a fused spur. I can't see the cabling but all 3 units can be switched on/off at the fused spur on the wall above the worktop. I can't tell if the washing machine or the oven have fused spurs without some major manoeuvring.

Re the 15A - there is a pendant light both upstairs and in the dining room, but none on the 30A or 45A circuits. 
        
Would the installation of the smart meter, the related cabling and de-energising of the second MPAN have had any effect on the safety (or lack of it)?