Care home fees

Littlemo11

My mum in law was put into a care home against her wishes in 2023, by the nhs. It was only supposed to be temporary.  About 4 weeks before she passed in October 2024 she had a social worker round to do an assessment of her finances.  She had round about £16,000 in her account.  Said social worker then came back to her and said she could have £25 a week to live on. This really stressed her out. As she wanted home. She passed away a couple of weeks later.
Hubby obviously got what pennies where in her account. Which paid for her funeral. Plus storage for her stuff. 
Long story short.
Now the council are wanting over£ 3000 from us in care homes fees. There was no agreements made by mum in law or by ourselves.  As far as we where concerned the fees where covered by the nhs as they put into the care home.
We do not have that sort of money sitting about. They are demanding our bank account statements and what monies we are paying out. 
Surely, this is not allowed.  My husband is disabled and can not cope with this stress. 
They money mum in law had has gone as he gave some to her grandchildren. As was her request . 
Any advice would be greatly appreciated 

GrubbyGirl_2

If she had a house they would be taking that into consideration.  Only when her total assets fall to £23,250 would social services pick up her care costs.  You have to look at her total income and assets and if less that £23,250 then she shouldn't be paying though they will take any pension she receives minus the £25 which she will get effectively as a derisory pocket money.  If she has a house the unfortunately she would have had to fund her own care (as do many thousands of people) and there is no way round it I'm afraid though you can insist they wait until the house is sold

Keep_pedalling

Who administered her estate?  It sounds like it was not insolvent, so after funeral; costs the next call on on would be debts, and if none of income was paid as a contribution to her care costs then I am afraid that should have been paid before distributing what remained to the benefliciaries. 

Flugelhorn

Unfortunately just because the NHS advised her to go to a care home, it doesn't mean they will pay the fees. Was she a home owner? if so was anyone else living in the house?

elsien

If she was there against her wishes, if she had capacity around where she lived, why did she stay there for so long and if she didn’t, someone should have been helping her to challenge it.

It seems possible that she went to an assessment bed which the NHS paid for for 4 to 6 weeks to assess any nursing needs, at which point the local authority would do a care needs assessment around what support she needed. Either while still in hospital, or when she first went to the care home that would  been the point at which she or her representative should have done something about her wish to return home.

There is too much missing information here to really give any sort of view on what has happened, her capacity around where she lived being one of the main factors.

Did she manage her own money, or was there a power of attorney in place? And what happened to the property she had been living in? 

Did she leave a will? 

Littlemo11

She was in a council bungalow. No one had power of attorney.  She took care of her own finances.  She was only supposed to be in the home until they got a care package sorted.  We where never informed of any fees for her care. The social worker didn't come out to do financial assessment until a month before she passed. Which caused her undo stress. Which we believe contributed towards her quick decline.
  She lived alone before being admitted to hospital with a care package in place at home. 
Sorry if some information is missing.  Its all came as a bit of a shock. The council sending hubby a bill for something almost two years after she had passed. 
Her account had roughly £16, 000 in it. So under the threshold. Thus  why I thought I would ask for advice and help. As we obviously haven't got that sort of money, plus I am not sure if the council have the right to invade our finances. Thank you 

elsien

I appreciate it is a difficult time for you all.
So when did she give the council tenancy up or was it still in place until she passed away? That is relevant because it will indicate whether or not she knew the care home place was long term.
The financial assessment comes after the care needs assessment so you need to be asking the local authority when the care needs assessment was carried, out, who was involved and when/by who the decision was made for her to stay in care. Usually family would be involved in the care act process (which would  look at whether care at home could continue to meet her needs)  unless the person does not want them to be, so do you remember any discussions around that?

The 23.5K as above is not an absolute cut off but once local authority funding starts then the social worker is correct that her pension etc goes towards her care fees and she keeps only the £25 pw  allowance. Which would indicate that someone somewhere thought that her place was permanent and she should have been part of that discussion and queried it if she disagreed.   Is it possible she had information about this that she did not share with family at the time?  Care homes often ask people to sign agreements as well. 

If your MIL had capacity and did not agree to stay in the home, or did not take steps to make sure the bill would be paid,  then the debt would not normally fall onto family. However in this case, she did leave money in her estate which should have gone towards the care home fees and that is why they are asking where that money has gone. 
 
I think the starting point should be whoever administered her estate (you still haven't said if there was a will or not) needs to make a formal complaint to the LA asking for the paperwork around any agreement to stay in the care home, and stating what you have said here; that she managed her own finances; that you and she believed the NHS were paying for it (unless they can show that the correct processes were followed) and you are disputing the bill on that basis. You were not aware that her place had been made permanent as that was not her wish, as far as you were aware.
Plus the length of time it has taken for them to start asking for money, both before and after her death. 

I do not think you should be sharing your own personal finances however whoever administered her estate may need to show where that money went, further down the line, depending on the outcomes of any complaint. If your complaint is not upheld, then you can go to the ombudsman, but one step at a time. 

Keep_pedalling

Littlemo11 said:

She was in a council bungalow. No one had power of attorney.  She took care of her own finances.  She was only supposed to be in the home until they got a care package sorted.  We where never informed of any fees for her care. The social worker didn't come out to do financial assessment until a month before she passed. Which caused her undo stress. Which we believe contributed towards her quick decline.
  She lived alone before being admitted to hospital with a care package in place at home. 
Sorry if some information is missing.  Its all came as a bit of a shock. The council sending hubby a bill for something almost two years after she had passed. 
Her account had roughly £16, 000 in it. So under the threshold. Thus  why I thought I would ask for advice and help. As we obviously haven't got that sort of money, plus I am not sure if the council have the right to invade our finances. Thank you 

If your husband dealt with his mother’s estate then he was responsible for paying any debts she owed from the estate. What happened to the £16,000?

badmemory

This highlights the problem of not having power of attorneys in place.  They have no responsibility to tell family members what is going on, not even what is wrong with them, even when they have advanced dementia.  As an extreme example, they were going to send our mother from hospital to a care home & were refusing to even tell us which one, this was after we had visited every day.  They quickly changed their minds when they saw the POA. 

Have they explained why it has taken them so long to produce the bill.

elsien

Even if there was a power of attorney, if mother-in-law had capacity, it was her choice who to share that information with. LPA does not give carte blanche to access information about the person without their permission.
And given that the OP says MIL managed to own money, we are presuming capacity.

Littlemo11

Hi thank you for your advice so far. MIL was of capacity. She didn't have a will. So things fell on us quickly. 
She still had the tenancy of the council bungalow and was still paying her bills for it. She just wanted home and to get her dog home. Who was paying someone to look after.
As far as we were all concerned this was a temporary situation.  Nothing was ever discussed about it being permanent.  MIL won't have had it anyway. 
As far as we are aware there was no agreements signed. As I said the social worker only came out a month before her passing to do a financial assessment.  I don't understand why they left it that long. 
Her items from her home had to go into storage where was until January. Her funeral was paid, then any other outstanding bills where paid. What monies that where left her grandkids got some. 
Surely the council have no right saying we have to pay and only sending out the bill 15 months after she has passed.  
Please, try to give me positive comments and not bash me. We lost two parents in a matter of months so it's been really hard for us a family