Can I challenge this double dip?

peeppeep94

We received a letter from Total Parking Solutions. We went to the local shops on a Friday afternoon (got some bits for curry and beer for that eve) one day and used their parking we left but the camera must have missed us. We then returned to the same car park the following day to have lunch and pick up some more bits at a couple of shops.

The camera appears to have missed the exit on the first day and entry on the second. its clearly a double dip. So they have recorded a stay of over 1300 mins!

Unless we are on holiday the car is never parked anywhere other than our drive overnight. We were not on holiday.

There are no signs at the car park that we could see that a suggests no return within a specific period of time.

We have been checking receipts / and called the credit card company to establish where and when we were over those 2 days. Unfortunately we didn't go anywhere else except from that shopping centre to home and there and back again the following day for lunch .

But can the shopping times info we have be used as evidence at all?

Could they at least be used to encourage TPS to check their cameras for the the other exit photo on the 1st day and entry photo on the second day? Would that need to be asked for under Freedom of information?

The timings info from receipts etc should narrow down the period that they need to check their cameras? Also could they be used as evidence at all?

We don't have ring/ blink evidence ourselves of car being at home.

Advice on next steps/ what to include in appeal? where else to go to look for evidence would be much appreciated.

DW190

peeppeep94 said:

We don't have ring/ blink evidence ourselves of car being at home.

Anyone in the car have Google Maps Timeline on their phones

Fruitcake

Plan A is a complaint to the landowner and your MP, both from the vehicle keeper without revealing the driver's identity.

Double dipping is a common fault where ANPR scameras are used, and in my opinion it is deliberate. Technology exists to prevent double dips from occurring, but I believe the scamera software is set to deliberately pair first entry images with last exit images, and discard anything in between, leaving no trace they were there.

If a cancellation is not forthcoming, then appeal using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES, sent from the keeper. Add a one liner that this was two separate visits (by different drivers if true) and therefore the keeper's personal data has been unlawfully obtained and processed.
You should also ask TPS to provide all four images of the visits. They won't, but you should still ask for them.

Do any of the occupants of the vehicle have a smart 'phone with tracking enabled that can show this was two visits.
Does the vehicle have telemetry or a "black box", often fitted for insurance purposes, that will show where the vehicle was at the material times?

If it gets to court, you can use witness statements from the occupants and from friends, neighbours, shopkeepers etcetera, but you will need to get them sooner rather that later whilst the events are still fresh in people's minds.

If that fails, then appeal to PoPLA using all the points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES. Post your draft here for checking before you submit it.

Brookside88

DW190 said:

peeppeep94 said:

We don't have ring/ blink evidence ourselves of car being at home.

Anyone in the car have Google Maps Timeline on their phones

i second this, i had a fine for the same thing where they said i stayed 4 days and managed to get out of it using my google maps timeline

The_Slithy_Tove

Fruitcake said:

If it gets to court, you can use witness statements from the occupants and from friends, neighbours, shopkeepers etcetera, but you will need to get them sooner rather that later whilst the events are still fresh in people's minds.

And don't forget that in a court (not that you want it to get that far - too much hassle), it is really for them to prove the car was there for all that time. It's all based on "balance of probability", so a couple of dodgy ANPR images versus a couple of witness statements and common sense (why would you want to park there overnight), they would have serious difficulty.

fisherjim

ANPR is known to be fallible even the BPA admitted some years ago that it isn't 100% reliable, and it is banned by the government for use in authority owned car parks for this reason.

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/anpr

As with all new technology, there are issues associated with its use:

a)    Repeat users of a car park inside a 24 hour period sometimes find that their first entry is paired with their last exit, resulting in an ‘overstay’. Operators are becoming aware of this and should now be checking all ANPR transactions to ensure that this does not occur

Car1980

You're putting too much thought and effort into this. Send them an email, tell them your entry and exit times, point out it's a clear and obvious double dip and to cancel the charge.

They won't tell you you're wrong, they'll either cancel it or send you a templated "appeal denied" that makes no reference to any of your points.

And then just ignore the debt collector letters and come back here when/if you receive a DCB Legal Letter of Claim. At which point you can give them both barrels.