Drug Driving Debacle

YamsterTheHamster

I wonder if anyone can help with some law advice please. I hope this is in the right section.

My (very silly!!) brother was hit by a car on his moped whilst he was stationary at a junction on his way to work. He was taken to hospital by ambulance and scanned from top to toe (he was very lucky to be alive) The police came to the hospital about an hour later and drug tested him, which he failed for cannabis (he'd smoked some the night before).

He'd been knocked out cold when he came off the moped and had broken his nose with the impact of him hitting the car in front as he was crushed between two cars. Are the police allowed to interview him so soon after an accident when he had a head injury? They didn't ask the doctor in charge for permission as far as he knows and the moment he was discharged he was marched straight (under arrest I presume) to the police station where they took blood. He said they intimidated him into complying when he was barely able to tell them his own name! He suffers with serious mental health issues (bi-polar, BPD, panic attacks, PTSD, to name but a few) which is why he claims he smokes the weed. 

In the official charge letter he's had through the post it states that the police drug tested him at the scene, which they certainly didn't, they weren't even there as they arrived after he'd been scooped up and taken to hospital. Is this an error in lawful paperwork that could get the case thrown out of court? Surely the police have messed up on an official document and that would undermine the case? It's so expensive to hire a lawyer if there's nothing that can be done.

Yes, I'm incredibly disappointed in him and hate the idea he could have harmed another road user with his lunacy. I've made it VERY plain that he has messed up and needs to face the consequences, so please don't judge too harshly. He is so down that I'm trying to find something to tell him before (we fear) he does something silly to himself. I know a lot of you will say he deserves a driving ban for it all and I don't disagree!

Thanks

DE_612183

Why did they drug test him if he was stationary and was the subject of the accident - that doesn't seem right ( is that the whole story )?

You can of course register a complaint with the relevant police force.

Torry_Quine

I know that any driver involved in an accident is normally breathalysed so testing for drugs could be the same.  

DullGreyGuy

DE_612183 said:

Why did they drug test him if he was stationary and was the subject of the accident - that doesn't seem right ( is that the whole story )?

You can of course register a complaint with the relevant police force.

Sounds like it was a shunt and so there is always the question of if the middle vehicle, the OP in this case, hit the vehicle in front first and then in turn was hit from behind or if the vehicle hit them first and pushed them into the vehicle in front. 

Presumably the non-bikers didnt sustain major injuries and so could have given a statement at the scene which may have pointed some form of finger at the OP. Alternatively could just be some random police hunch/suspicion/bias that made them think it was worth a test. 

doodling

Hi,

I think that if the police can demonstrate that (a) he was driving and (b) that he was over the limit for drug driving at the time then the details aren't going to matter too much.

There may be arguments about whether anything said in interviews is admissible if they were not properly carried out but it doesn't sound like the contents of an interview are going to matter here.

I doubt refusing a blood test was optional - if he did refuse then he could have been facing a charge of failure to provide a specimen which would carry at least the same penalty.  If the blood test was optional then there might be a tiny sliver of a case but the police don't generally insist on blood tests of people involved in accidents so there must have been something to give them a (reasonable?) suspicion, which in turn would give them the right to insist on a test.

It is definitely worth a discussion with a solicitor to go through the details but I wouldn't be holding out much hope.

TheSpectator

Options are plead not guilty and find a solicitor who may get him off on a technicality and risk a harsher sentence if found guilty or take responsibility and admit they were driving when they shouldn't have been.

Exodi

I'm just going to be totally honest, I am suspicious on the accuracy of this account.

You say he was totally stationary and was hit by a car - so he was the victim? The police, despite not conducting a roadside test, randomly decide to follow the victim to the hospital to drug test them? That's extremely peculiar, and the coincidence that their suspicions were correct. 

I'm not sure why you dramatise the police's efforts to get an official reading at the station - given that roadside tests aren't admissible in court, and every minute that a suspect doesn't provide an official reading is a minute closer to being under the legal limit -it is very obvious why suspects may want to delay this process (and why police will often give short shrift to someone who is struggling to tell them their name, as in your brothers case).

On top of the incredulity of the above, it is similarly suprising he failed on the official reading, if he had not smoked any cannabis the whole day, and only the night before. There are minimum limits, so either he really really loaded up the night before, you are downplaying your brothers actions, or he has lied to you.

On the bit about stating the intital drug test location, it is pretty minor, I'm not sure why some think that you can have court cases thrown out because of typo's in letters and other trivial errors.

And then to top off my suspicion of this whole thing - if he was genuinely hit while stationary (aka the victim), it is totally incompatible with how you end your post...

Yes, I'm incredibly disappointed in him and hate the idea he could have harmed another road user with his lunacy. I've made it VERY plain that he has messed up and needs to face the consequences, so please don't judge too harshly. He is so down that I'm trying to find something to tell him before (we fear) he does something silly to himself. I know a lot of you will say he deserves a driving ban for it all and I don't disagree!

This reads as if he caused the accident as I don't understand why you'd say any of this if you genuinely believed he was the victim? It's hard to suggest he messed up by getting hit by a car while stationary?? Nonetheless it is  at odds to the rest of your post and if I'm being honest, I think we're not getting the truth here.

This is an anonymous forum, we read all sorts, we don't judge. But we can only offer the best advice if you give us the truth. It will not be helpful to give advice framed around him being the victim if it transpires he caused the accident.

Exodi

Torry_Quine said:

I know that any driver involved in an accident is normally breathalysed so testing for drugs could be the same.  

I was not breathalyzed in my last car accident where the police where present - I don't think that's a hard and fast rule, I'd imagine they do if they have any reason to suspect the drivers may be intoxicated.

YamsterTheHamster

I'm telling you all what he told me so if he's lying, well.... I'll try and address a few questions.

The accident happened about 8.30am when he was waiting to turn left out of a junction, there were two cars ahead and a gentleman, who claims that his foot slipped off of the brake pedal, hit him from behind, crushing him between one of the two vehicles. He hit the back windscreen, and was thrown onto the ground, knocked out. He claims he smoked several bongs the night before but didn't feel stoned at all that morning. The police didn't turn up at the hospital for an hour or so, I know they religiously breath test for alcohol whenever there's a crash, does this extend to drugs now too? He genuinely was the victim of the crash as everyone else was fine as they were in cars and he was on a 125cc moped. I meant he messed up by taking the drugs, not that he had any fault in this accident, he was stationary.

Thank you all for your advice, much appreciated.

LightFlare

Exodi said:

I'm just going to be totally honest, I am suspicious on the accuracy of this account.

You say he was totally stationary and was hit by a car - so he was the victim? The police, despite not conducting a roadside test, randomly decide to follow the victim to the hospital to drug test them? That's extremely peculiar, and the coincidence that their suspicions were correct. 

I'm not sure why you dramatise the police's efforts to get an official reading at the station - given that roadside tests aren't admissible in court, and every minute that a suspect doesn't provide an official reading is a minute closer to being under the legal limit -it is very obvious why suspects may want to delay this process (and why police will often give short shrift to someone who is struggling to tell them their name, as in your brothers case).

On top of the incredulity of the above, it is similarly suprising he failed on the official reading, if he had not smoked any cannabis the whole day, and only the night before. There are minimum limits, so either he really really loaded up the night before, you are downplaying your brothers actions, or he has lied to you.

On the bit about stating the intital drug test location, it is pretty minor, I'm not sure why some think that you can have court cases thrown out because of typo's in letters and other trivial errors.

And then to top off my suspicion of this whole thing - if he was genuinely hit while stationary (aka the victim), it is totally incompatible with how you end your post...

Yes, I'm incredibly disappointed in him and hate the idea he could have harmed another road user with his lunacy. I've made it VERY plain that he has messed up and needs to face the consequences, so please don't judge too harshly. He is so down that I'm trying to find something to tell him before (we fear) he does something silly to himself. I know a lot of you will say he deserves a driving ban for it all and I don't disagree!

This reads as if he caused the accident as I don't understand why you'd say any of this if you genuinely believed he was the victim? It's hard to suggest he messed up by getting hit by a car while stationary?? Nonetheless it is  at odds to the rest of your post and if I'm being honest, I think we're not getting the truth here.

This is an anonymous forum, we read all sorts, we don't judge. But we can only offer the best advice if you give us the truth. It will not be helpful to give advice framed around him being the victim if it transpires he caused the accident.

 Perfectly feasible - cannabis stays in the system far longer than alcohol and 48 hrs is typically the “safe” period. 

He was on his way to work - so very possibly <12hrs since his last puff 

YamsterTheHamster said:

I'm telling you all what he told me so if he's lying, well.... I'll try and address a few questions.

The accident happened about 8.30am when he was waiting to turn left out of a junction, there were two cars ahead and a gentleman, who claims that his foot slipped off of the brake pedal, hit him from behind, crushing him between one of the two vehicles. He hit the back windscreen, and was thrown onto the ground, knocked out. He claims he smoked several bongs the night before but didn't feel stoned at all that morning. The police didn't turn up at the hospital for an hour or so, I know they religiously breath test for alcohol whenever there's a crash, does this extend to drugs now too? He genuinely was the victim of the crash as everyone else was fine as they were in cars and he was on a 125cc moped. I meant he messed up by taking the drugs, not that he had any fault in this accident, he was stationary.

Thank you all for your advice, much appreciated.

He will most likely have been way over. Cannabis is similar (if not worse) than alcohol, in that it remains in your system for quite a period of time and is fully capable of impairing cognitive function during this time. Chances are (guessing) the Police may well have smelt it on him, which led to their suspicion and subsequent sample collection.

Just a case of wait and see what the results come back as as at the moment, I would assume that he hasn't yet been charged with anything - but that may change when the result is in

doodling

Hi,

It is unusual for the police to drug test victims of motor accidents unless there is some suspicion.  At the very least they would normally have done a saliva test before taking him to a police station.  If he declined one of those then I can imagine that would increase suspicion substantially.

Are you certain that there was absolutely nothing about him that indicated that he used drugs?  There was nothing on his person (or his bike) that anyone might have noticed, there was none of the charactistic smell of cannabis, he was completely normal in his appearance?

It is possible that his mental issues might have resulted in behaviour that some could have interpreted as being drug related.  That is unfortunate but I'm not sure that anything can be done about that.