Property in trust

Gypsyjoe1212

My fil passed last year and left his part of a property in trust for his 3 children in his will. His wife and the solicitor are named as trustees with my husband as a beneficiary. Probate was applied for in November. Now I’m looking for advice. We tried to speak to the solicitor who delt with the will to explain the will to us but they refused as hubby isn’t a trustee. I have a copy of it as his wife showed us and allowed us to take a copy of it. Does anyone know where we could go for someone to explain it in lay mans terms? Only as the wife thinks she’s got a share of the property when I’m sure she hasn’t. And we wanted to know whether she can add her daughter as a beneficiary even though she isn’t named in the will. I’m so confused buy it. Any advice or help
is extremely appreciated thank you 

Keep_pedalling

His will has created an immediate post death interest trust. He wife is now the beneficial owner of the house but legal ownership is with the trust. His 3 children are classed as remaindermen and don’t actually inherit until his wife dies or possible earlier is she no longer needs the home ( that will depend on the exact terms of the will).

He will cannot leave the house to anyone although it does form part of her estate for IHT purposes. The fact that a solicitor is one of the trustees should avoid anything dodgy happening. 

poseidon1

Gypsyjoe1212 said:

My fil passed last year and left his part of a property in trust for his 3 children in his will. His wife and the solicitor are named as trustees with my husband as a beneficiary. Probate was applied for in November. Now I’m looking for advice. We tried to speak to the solicitor who delt with the will to explain the will to us but they refused as hubby isn’t a trustee. I have a copy of it as his wife showed us and allowed us to take a copy of it. Does anyone know where we could go for someone to explain it in lay mans terms? Only as the wife thinks she’s got a share of the property when I’m sure she hasn’t. And we wanted to know whether she can add her daughter as a beneficiary even though she isn’t named in the will. I’m so confused buy it. Any advice or help
is extremely appreciated thank you 

Best provide redacted copy of the will wording if you can.

Keep_pedalling could be right in his assessment, however I get the sense this is a blended family . 

 You refer to your FIL' s wife rather than your husband's mother, and her daughter rather than your husband's sister. 

So if this is a 2nd marriage scenario with different kids on each side, it begs the question whether FIL solely owned the property and merely gave his (2nd?) Wife a life interest in it, or if she had a share of the property from outset and FIL only placed his own share in trust.  The wife ( if she has her own share ) can do  with it as she pleases, but she can't alter FIL's will.

Seeing  the terms of the will should provide more clarity, for those of us more familiar with wills drafting.

Gypsyjoe1212

This is said will. Fil only owns 50% due to direct son owning other half. She thinks she has a 70% share of fil 50% as it says further in will she she has 70% of remaining assets. We are worried she’s going to try to leave her said part of house to her daughter. We just trying to get clarification that when she dies the house goes to his children not hers. Yes a blended family with a bit of strain between us all at the moment. 

Gypsyjoe1212

Thank you for any advice it is greatly appreciated 

Keep_pedalling

I got the impression from your opening post that he was the sole owner of the home, was my assumption correct of did they own it as tenants in common?

poseidon1

Gypsyjoe1212 said:

This is said will. Fil only owns 50% due to direct son owning other half. She thinks she has a 70% share of fil 50% as it says further in will she she has 70% of remaining assets. We are worried she’s going to try to leave her said part of house to her daughter. We just trying to get clarification that when she dies the house goes to his children not hers. Yes a blended family with a bit of strain between us all at the moment. 

OK, as suspected a blended family scenario with husband and wife holding the family home as tenants in common.

Acknowledgement of the tenant in common ownership position is indicated at the start of clause 3 in the copy document you supplied above ( albeit a little obscured ) but you clearly seem to understand that to be the basis of their joint ownership prior to your FILs death.

 The only question therefore is whether they held the property on a 50:50 basis at all times ( pre FIL's death) or some other proportion.

The contents of the will you supplied, is silent on this point, but from what you say the widow ( in her confusion or ignorance)  has unfortunately chosen to conflate  her entitlement under the will to 70% of your FIL's  other assets as extending to the marital home.

The actual potential property split should be a question of fact ascertained either at the time the property was originally purchased by them, or the date the tenancy in common ownership was created  if this occurred post purchase. 

So is there a way you can ascertain the percentage split independently?  Well although tenancy in common ownership has to be notified on the Land Registry, there is no requirement for the percentage shares to be notified thereon. So checking the land registry entry is unlikely to illicit this information.

What should be conclusive is what was the percentage share  of the property  reported on behalf of the FIL for the purposes of probate and any potential IHT return that may have been submitted.  The solicitor that handled probate should in theory have no problem in confirming what he reported for this purpose. It is not controversial and should hopefully ensure the widow has a correct understanding of what percentage share she is able to leave under the terms of her own will.

Despite the solicitor refusing to talk to your husband about key  details of the trust, I would suggest he write a polite letter to the solicitor requesting confirmation of the percentage share reported for probate purposes, since there seems to be confusion on this question. Hopefully the solicitor will respond appropriately, and by doing so forestall the widow purporting to leave a 70% share of the property under the terms of her own will.

She cannot unilaterally change the split  ( as I said it is a question of fact), but she evidently has problems in grasping these kinds of legal niceties, which is not a desirable trait in someone who now has trustee duties and obligations. Hopefully the  co trustee solicitor can keep her on the straight and narrow and reassure your husband there is no question of him and siblings being partially disinherited by the back door.

Gypsyjoe1212

Thank you. The property was never hers on paper or otherwise. It’s was bought by Fil and his first wife who sadly passed. His son became tenants in common a number of years ago and is on land registry with Fil as joint owners. Confirmed as tenants in common. Thank you both for the help. As long as she can’t put any claim to the property or add her daughter as a beneficiary to which I understand she can’t without speaking to the other beneficiaries and getting there permission things are as I thought them to be. Basically she stays in the house till
she either dies or moves out then it’s to be sold with the 3 children being the beneficiaries of 50% profit. My apologies as it seems complicated to me and words I couldn’t comprehend or understand. 

Thank you 

poseidon1

Gypsyjoe1212 said:

Thank you. The property was never hers on paper or otherwise. It’s was bought by Fil and his first wife who sadly passed. His son became tenants in common a number of years ago and is on land registry with Fil as joint owners. Confirmed as tenants in common. Thank you both for the help. As long as she can’t put any claim to the property or add her daughter as a beneficiary to which I understand she can’t without speaking to the other beneficiaries and getting there permission things are as I thought them to be. Basically she stays in the house till
she either dies or moves out then it’s to be sold with the 3 children being the beneficiaries of 50% profit. My apologies as it seems complicated to me and words I couldn’t comprehend or understand. 

Thank you 

With this additional data, appears FIL held  his  Tenant in common share of the house together with his son, throughout the 2nd marriage.

On death all FIL gifted into life interest trust for wife was that share. Son continues to own his share ( whatever that percentage might be ) independently, whilst wife has a mere beneficial right to occupy but nothing else

This places the son in a legal position where he now owns the property as tenant in common together with the trustees of the Will Trust. Armed with that legal relationship and assuming the will has been probated, the son must now push for a Form A restriction be placed on the Land Registry which declares to the world at large that two of the three tenants in common are mere trustees, and that there can be no future dealings with the property other than by all three owners on title acting in concert.

Not clear what the Widow's state of mind maybe, but one does wonder whether the solicitor has properly explained to her the legal realities related to the house ownership, and if so is she wantonly refusing to understand, or incapable of doing so.

Not really a matter that should be stressing everyone out, but implementing the Form A Restriction asap should be sufficient safeguard going forward.

Gypsyjoe1212

Thank you so so much. You have made it clear to me now.
i was partly sure she had no financial gain for her daughter when she passes. I can get the form a sorted. Just want to protect what belongs to the family. She had her own home sold it and gave the money to her own family. Didn’t want her to have a financial gain again when she paid nothing into the house at the start. I apologise if we seem money oriented we aren’t and don’t care if it was ever sold
for a pound we just want her to have something that isn’t hers. Thank you both for all the advice 

RAS

And remember that the son needs to register the IPDI trust with the HMRC. There are situations where there's a 2 year delay permitted and there are others where it's only 3 months. An OP reported getting their first 3 month fine recently.