Permitted Development Rights

MsWils

I've got a detached house that's not in a conservation area. It's it need of a major update. The UPVC Windows and plastic cladding are 30 years old. The front door is UPVC and needs replacing. 
the house has an integral garage that I would like to convert into an office. And I would like to build a small single story extension (4 x4m) to the side of the house which is in my back garden. 
I'd also like to make a layout change to the interior. I know all of this definitely needs building regs approval.

I've been trawling the internet for advice to find out if I can do all of this without planning permission. It appears when I read the guidance that I can but then it says check with your local planning department. 

Well trying to get any coherent information out of them is wild! One person told me to submit a pre app. So I did that. I felt like I gave a lot of information. I got an invalid letter notice back. They wanted to know all of the details such as what materials I would use on the drive when I removed a 1980's flowerbed. Will the windows be like for like. I'm thinking I'd prefer aluminium if I can get it within budget.

The planning officer who invalidated my letter said that the appearance of the property will change significantly. But the only real difference apart from it looking not falling to bits is the window that would replace the garage door. 

To me it just seems like they are being awkward. The officer won't just say if I am allowed to do these things within permitted development rights or not. I only want to do what I can within permitted dev because I don't want to do anything that requires permission. My plan would work to this!
I find it all very backward!!

Does anyone have any advice? 

Section62

MsWils said:

I've got a detached house that's not in a conservation area. It's it need of a major update. The UPVC Windows and plastic cladding are 30 years old. The front door is UPVC and needs replacing. 
the house has an integral garage that I would like to convert into an office. And I would like to build a small single story extension (4 x4m) to the side of the house which is in my back garden. 
I'd also like to make a layout change to the interior. I know all of this definitely needs building regs approval.

I've been trawling the internet for advice to find out if I can do all of this without planning permission. It appears when I read the guidance that I can but then it says check with your local planning department. 

Well trying to get any coherent information out of them is wild! One person told me to submit a pre app. So I did that. I felt like I gave a lot of information. I got an invalid letter notice back. They wanted to know all of the details such as what materials I would use on the drive when I removed a 1980's flowerbed. Will the windows be like for like. I'm thinking I'd prefer aluminium if I can get it within budget.

The planning officer who invalidated my letter said that the appearance of the property will change significantly. But the only real difference apart from it looking not falling to bits is the window that would replace the garage door. 

To me it just seems like they are being awkward. The officer won't just say if I am allowed to do these things within permitted development rights or not. I only want to do what I can within permitted dev because I don't want to do anything that requires permission. My plan would work to this!
I find it all very backward!!

Does anyone have any advice? 

Why don't you want to do anything that requires planning consent? (Permitted development is a form of planning consent anyway)

Usually it is better to decide what you want to do, then work out if you need planning consent, and if so apply for it.  Designing alterations so they scrape through as permitted development often ends up with sub-optimal outcomes. A side extension which is in the back garden suggests this isn't a straightforward case.

Probably wise to take the planning officer's hint that a) they need more information and b) what you want doesn't sound like it will pass as PD, and find an architect who will draw some plans up for you.

At that point you might want to see if an application for a lawful development certificate is worthwhile, or just bite the bullet and make a full application.  The application fee is not excessive given the total budget you'll need for all the work.

FreeBear

Section62 said:

MsWils said:

I've got a detached house that's not in a conservation area. It's it need of a major update. The UPVC Windows and plastic cladding are 30 years old. The front door is UPVC and needs replacing. 
the house has an integral garage that I would like to convert into an office. And I would like to build a small single story extension (4 x4m) to the side of the house which is in my back garden. 
I'd also like to make a layout change to the interior. I know all of this definitely needs building regs approval.

I've been trawling the internet for advice to find out if I can do all of this without planning permission. It appears when I read the guidance that I can but then it says check with your local planning department. 

Well trying to get any coherent information out of them is wild! One person told me to submit a pre app. So I did that. I felt like I gave a lot of information. I got an invalid letter notice back. They wanted to know all of the details such as what materials I would use on the drive when I removed a 1980's flowerbed. Will the windows be like for like. I'm thinking I'd prefer aluminium if I can get it within budget.

The planning officer who invalidated my letter said that the appearance of the property will change significantly. But the only real difference apart from it looking not falling to bits is the window that would replace the garage door. 

To me it just seems like they are being awkward. The officer won't just say if I am allowed to do these things within permitted development rights or not. I only want to do what I can within permitted dev because I don't want to do anything that requires permission. My plan would work to this!
I find it all very backward!!

Does anyone have any advice? 

Why don't you want to do anything that requires planning consent? (Permitted development is a form of planning consent anyway)

Usually it is better to decide what you want to do, then work out if you need planning consent, and if so apply for it.  Designing alterations so they scrape through as permitted development often ends up with sub-optimal outcomes. A side extension which is in the back garden suggests this isn't a straightforward case.

Probably wise to take the planning officer's hint that a) they need more information and b) what you want doesn't sound like it will pass as PD, and find an architect who will draw some plans up for you.

At that point you might want to see if an application for a lawful development certificate is worthwhile, or just bite the bullet and make a full application.  The application fee is not excessive given the total budget you'll need for all the work.

Check to see if the property is subject to an Article 4 Directive - If one is in force, then some of what you are proposing will need planning permission.

New rules came in to force back in October 2024 that now give councils up to 10 years to serve enforcement notices for planning & building regs breaches. The scale of fines has also increased if you do not comply. Bear that in mind if you are thinking about doing work "under the radar".

Bigphil1474

OP, is it worth looking at doing the work in stages rather than trying to get everything on the oner? Maybe start with the extension and go from there. IME councils don't like doing a lot of work for free.

gwynlas

You will need building control sign off on garage conversion and any extension so you might as well have some simple drawings done to submit to council.
Before deciding to go forward you need to check out potential build cost  of conversion and extension and whether this will add value to property.

MsWils

Im just really confused. Everything I want to do is listed as ok within permitted development. Change windows and doors, small single story extension in the garden (is not visible from the street as were on a corner plot). Doing a garage conversion - apparently ok. 
The reason I don't want to go through planning is that I don't want to wait 3 months for approval. I have just sold a house that I have submitted 2 plans for with 2 different architects. This cost us over £25k and by the time it was approved we couldnt afford the work due to spiralling costs of materials and architects who quadrupled the initial budget. Hence having to buy this house instead. It needs renovating. Its not in an article 4 area or conservation area this time(other one was) We got thoroughly fleeced from the first architect. This time I just want simple and economical changes. I know what I want and I don't want to involve any architects this time. A builder who can get my simple plans drawn up is enough. 

Designing alterations so they scrape through as permitted development often ends up with sub-optimal outcomes. A side extension which is in the back garden suggests this isn't a straightforward case.

Section62

MsWils said:

Im just really confused. Everything I want to do is listed as ok within permitted development. Change windows and doors, small single story extension in the garden (is not visible from the street as were on a corner plot). Doing a garage conversion - apparently ok. 
The reason I don't want to go through planning is that I don't want to wait 3 months for approval. I have just sold a house that I have submitted 2 plans for with 2 different architects. This cost us over £25k and by the time it was approved we couldnt afford the work due to spiralling costs of materials and architects who quadrupled the initial budget. Hence having to buy this house instead. It needs renovating. Its not in an article 4 area or conservation area this time(other one was) We got thoroughly fleeced from the first architect. This time I just want simple and economical changes. I know what I want and I don't want to involve any architects this time. A builder who can get my simple plans drawn up is enough. 

Designing alterations so they scrape through as permitted development often ends up with sub-optimal outcomes. A side extension which is in the back garden suggests this isn't a straightforward case.

If you find a builder willing to get plans drawn up then how will you know that they know the planning rules?  Many builders are keen to claim expertise in planning (and building regs) and will happily tell you 'leave everything to us'.  Sadly far too often that isn't the case, and the homeowner is left trying to sort out the mess, often not until they are in the middle of selling and the buyer's solicitor starts asking difficult questions.

TBH waiting three months for planning shouldn't cause you an overall delay because there's other stuff which needs doing and that can be done at the same time.  If you find a builder who can start the job in less than three months then you need to be doubly wary about their skills and expertise.

The possible cause of confusion over the PD rules is that websites usually talk in general terms (with cautions to seek expert advice) because whether or not something is PD depends on the specifics of the case.  If there is doubt then advice should be sought from the planning authority - which you've done - and their initial response suggests that there is some kind of issue.

One of the possible issues is you having a corner plot.  If there is a highway to the side then you probably won't be able to do a side extension as PD - but to be sure you need someone who knows the PD rules inside out to look at your plans and make a judgement... and even then they could be wrong.  The definitive opinion would be a certificate of lawful development issued by your local planning authority (subject to appeal) which is why I'd suggest you go that route if you don't want full planning, and can't be certain yourself that what you are doing is PD.

Having to demolish your side extension because the planning authority take enforcement action is a lot more costly than paid-for advice (or a LDC) before you start building.

MsWils

Section62 said:

If you find a builder willing to get plans drawn up then how will you know that they know the planning rules?  Many builders are keen to claim expertise in planning (and building regs) and will happily tell you 'leave everything to us'.  Sadly far too often that isn't the case, and the homeowner is left trying to sort out the mess, often not until they are in the middle of selling and the buyer's solicitor starts asking difficult questions.

TBH waiting three months for planning shouldn't cause you an overall delay because there's other stuff which needs doing and that can be done at the same time.  If you find a builder who can start the job in less than three months then you need to be doubly wary about their skills and expertise.

The possible cause of confusion over the PD rules is that websites usually talk in general terms (with cautions to seek expert advice) because whether or not something is PD depends on the specifics of the case.  If there is doubt then advice should be sought from the planning authority - which you've done - and their initial response suggests that there is some kind of issue.

One of the possible issues is you having a corner plot.  If there is a highway to the side then you probably won't be able to do a side extension as PD - but to be sure you need someone who knows the PD rules inside out to look at your plans and make a judgement... and even then they could be wrong.  The definitive opinion would be a certificate of lawful development issued by your local planning authority (subject to appeal) which is why I'd suggest you go that route if you don't want full planning, and can't be certain yourself that what you are doing is PD.

Having to demolish your side extension because the planning authority take enforcement action is a lot more costly than paid-for advice (or a LDC) before you start building.

Thanks. Many builders have a design and build service. ie they use their own architect or draughtsman. Which is a different process to what I've done previously which is pay a very expensive architect to create plans that were quadruple my budget and needed to be reworked several times to actually fulfil my brief and then again because they were not aware the property was in a conservation area. I then have to have my scheme reworked by a new architect and planning submitted again. The whole process took over two years and like I say £25k plus. And an awful lot of stress. 

What I want now is a very simple garage conversion and a small extension. I know exactly what I want.
I have a builder contact.
The side/back garden - there is no highway to the side. The extension would be in my back garden and not visible from the street. Plus some general updates ie new windows and door replacement. So I can get a builder that can organise technical drawings, building regs approval and structural engineer. Before I go down the road of paying people to draw up the plans Im trying to work out how affordable it is and when it would be able to take place. 

MsWils

MsWils said:

- but to be sure you need someone who knows the PD rules inside out to look at your plans and make a judgement... and even then they could be wrong.  The definitive opinion would be a certificate of lawful development issued by your local planning authority (subject to appeal) which is why I'd suggest you go that route if you don't want full planning, and can't be certain yourself that what you are doing is PD.

This is exactly what I'm trying to find out. I have the rough plans. I know what I want. I am having a hard time getting straight answers from the council. Ive submitted the pre application but they wanted to know small details that I hadn't yet decided on. So what I would like is a list of window types that I can use without it triggering the need for permission. Can I replace UPVC with aluminium for instance. Can I replace my old UPVC door with hardwood? Can I change the mullion style of the windows. Will a garage conversion need planning permission because obviously Im changing the front elevation. I just want to know in general what will fall under PD and what won't. So I can just either do my plans or not. This isn't a huge project and I want to get things changed during the summer. 

Section62

MsWils said:

Thanks. Many builders have a design and build service. ie they use their own architect or draughtsman.

They do, and it can work well that way.  But if the builder is arranging everything - using their 'trusted' subcontractors - then it reduces the scope of having third-party involvement doing the checks and balances.  If they also use their 'trusted' private BC company then the client risks being stitched up like a kipper.  If the SE is chartered then they have a professional responsibility, but the scope of what they deal with is limited.

Don't get me wrong, architects are not my most favourite people in the world, but they aren't all as bad as the one you had.  Unfortunately all approaches to getting building work done have their risks and flaws - there is no perfect solution. 

MsWils said:

The side/back garden - there is no highway to the side. The extension would be in my back garden and not visible from the street.

Visibility from the street wouldn't be a factor in the yes/no for permitted development for extensions.

If you have a corner plot but there is no highway to the side then what is adjacent to your plot on that side?  Can you do a rough sketch plan showing the layout as having a side extension in a back garden is an unusual arrangement?

MsWils

The new extension would be in the main back garden which is behind a fence, facing my neighbours fence. Not sure if that counts