Thinking of buying house but owner didn’t play by the rules with planning permission - ok or not ok?

Slinky

You say it's on for a good price. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

RipleyG

As others have said, do check it (all!) has building regulations sign off, as that's very different to the planning permission. PP says whether you're allowed to undertake the works, BR says that all works met the required safety/legislation standards. 

I bought a standard victorian terraces with the wall between lounge and dining rooms knocked through. There were support pillars each side, but it didn't have BR sign off. My solicitor was insistent I had it checked - rightly so, as inspection showed the whole upstairs storey was resting on a plank of wood sitting on just one brick at either side. We renegotiated the price to reflect the cost of putting in a new rsj and replastering. 

It was a learning experience for me. The problem was absolutely not visible at viewing or from the valuation survey (we had to take a chunk of plaster off to find it). 

If works you CAN see are shoddy, and your seller was willing to start building without planning permission, that doesn't suggest an owner or builder with good attention to process and quality. Check it has BR. If it doesn't you have 3 options - go ahead and risk it (ask your solicitor if indemnity insurance is possible); insist on proper surveying work to identify any issues (might not be possible for such a large build); pull out and find somewhere else.

I suppose the big question is whether you will still love the house if you have to do enormous amounts of work while living in it (and spend the tens of thousands it might cost if indemnity isn't available). 

Bigphil1474

Agree with above mostly. Assuming the planning issues are now sorted, Building Control sign off is essential. If they didn't get that it's extremely difficult to get it done retrospectively. They would normally visit the construction a few times if it's a 2 storey extension/build and check key stages of the build. If they didn't, then how can they tell if the internal structure is up to standard?
Indemnity Insurance for an unsafe structure is gonna be a chocolate fireguard. It won't pay the costs to fix any bodge up.

stuart45

RipleyG said:

As others have said, do check it (all!) has building regulations sign off, as that's very different to the planning permission. PP says whether you're allowed to undertake the works, BR says that all works met the required safety/legislation standards. 

I bought a standard victorian terraces with the wall between lounge and dining rooms knocked through. There were support pillars each side, but it didn't have BR sign off. My solicitor was insistent I had it checked - rightly so, as inspection showed the whole upstairs storey was resting on a plank of wood sitting on just one brick at either side. We renegotiated the price to reflect the cost of putting in a new rsj and replastering. 

It was a learning experience for me. The problem was absolutely not visible at viewing or from the valuation survey (we had to take a chunk of plaster off to find it). 

If works you CAN see are shoddy, and your seller was willing to start building without planning permission, that doesn't suggest an owner or builder with good attention to process and quality. Check it has BR. If it doesn't you have 3 options - go ahead and risk it (ask your solicitor if indemnity insurance is possible); insist on proper surveying work to identify any issues (might not be possible for such a large build); pull out and find somewhere else.

I suppose the big question is whether you will still love the house if you have to do enormous amounts of work while living in it (and spend the tens of thousands it might cost if indemnity isn't available). 

That's an important point, because you often find that people get advised on forums that if it's been OK for years there's no issue. I did a similar job years ago where timber had been used and over time the bearing end in the external wall had rotted and the wall above was cracking.
Just one point about the indemnity insurance. It doesn't cover defective work, only Building Control enforcement.

ThisIsWeird

Ok, so 'Planning' appears sorted - that's good.

Why won't an indemnity policy cover the lack of BC?

Add to that a thorough - SE-enhanced - survey as due diligence (knock the cost of this from the asking price), and you're good to go. Possibly.

Albermarle

ThisIsWeird said:

Ok, so 'Planning' appears sorted - that's good.

Why won't an indemnity policy cover the lack of BC?

Add to that a thorough - SE-enhanced - survey as due diligence (knock the cost of this from the asking price), and you're good to go. Possibly.

A family member recently had an offer accepted on a converted bungalow ( with added dormers and bedrooms in what was the roof space). 
Trying to get things moving quickly they looked around for possible local surveyors and spoke to one in particular.
He advised with this type of conversion, he would have to see the BC sign off, or would be forced to give a poor survey result and did not want to waste our time and money. This was of course because he would not be able to accurately assess if the conversion had been done properly or not, in its completed state.
In any case BC sign off is necessary to call the new rooms bedrooms, and it would come up at a later stage in the conveyancing anyway.
So an indemnity will protect you from problems with the council, but would not stop the roof falling down, or mean you could describe the rooms as bedrooms.
Anyway we asked the EA to ask the vendor if all such paperwork was in place and apparently it is, so all OK.
 

RipleyG

I agree it isn't standard for indemnity policies to cover rectification works, but there are policies available that do. They are substantially more expensive than the standard policies available, harder to find, and you need to make sure certain conditions are met. Hence the need to talk to your solicitor. This article might be useful: https://todaysconveyancer.co.uk/guide-lack-planning-building-regulations-legal-indemnity-insurance/

A survey won't make you good-to-go. A specialist one might help you understand if/what works need doing. But as BigPhil says, to find out whether standards are met means being able to view internal structures - right down to foundations. Your survey would need plaster removal, floors lifting, possible excavation on interior and exterior of foundations, taking part of the roof apart....etc. It's complicated and expensive, and not always possible. The survey work would need agreement from your seller if you want it to take place before you buy. 

FreeBear

RipleyG said: If works you CAN see are shoddy, and your seller was willing to start building without planning permission, that doesn't suggest an owner or builder with good attention to process and quality. Check it has BR. If it doesn't you have 3 options - go ahead and risk it (ask your solicitor if indemnity insurance is possible); insist on proper surveying work to identify any issues (might not be possible for such a large build); pull out and find somewhere else.

The council already know about the works thanks to the retrospective planning application - They might have even served am enforcement notice to trigger the application. So as it is already on their radar, I doubt indemnity insurance will be an option.

Section62

ThisIsWeird said:

Ok, so 'Planning' appears sorted - that's good.

Not quite.... the OP still needs to check those planning conditions, and understand the significance of the missing porch.

ThisIsWeird said:

Why won't an indemnity policy cover the lack of BC?

Add to that a thorough - SE-enhanced - survey as due diligence (knock the cost of this from the asking price), and you're good to go. Possibly.

Not much to add to Albermarle's comments - and a thorough survey (assuming the vendor agrees to their property being ripped apart to do it) still won't overcome the lack of BC signoff, other than providing some level of assurance their home won't collapse on top of them.

njlj1992

Thanks all, this is very useful. I think despite us loving the place its definitely more hassle/stress than it’s worth based on the comments above. £340k for a detached house (albeit up north) does seem very cheap, especially given the wow factor it has, but I need to accept there might be reasons for that. 

Have seen pics from neighbours on the planning permission portal ant different stages of the refused sign off and it seems the foundations etc were retained, they basically knocked the top of the bungalow off and built upwards. They’ve made it all open plan downstairs so presumably taken walls out from the original build during construction. I did ask the vendor if it was a self build and he said he had workers do it for him (sounded like this was his own network rather than “official builders”), as I mentioned to partner if there’s stuff we can spot to correct that’s fine, but it’s the stuff we can’t see that’s making me more nervous as it could end up being a money pit.