Weird & confusing boundary wall question...

Huskymumma

I am buying a house currently, and I want to put drive gates on my property and a 5ft fence the left side of my driveway off from next doors (left as I stand facing the house). Its about 6-7 meters down to my garage wall, but there is a weird looking wall between the house I am buying and the neighbours (who I think is very elderly)

I have to do this as I have three boisterous doggies and I can't have them escaping when I open the front door.  Please have a look at the picture I have put of the "wall" and different heights of the driveways

1, Would I have to fence this on my side of the boundary walls?

2, if so, how would I go about it?

3, Will I have to ask the neighbours permission, and what are my rights if they refuse?

This is the first house I have bought in 29 years, so I am anxious to get it right and not upset my new neighbours

theartfullodger

Three boisterous "doggies" may well upset neighbours, even if they never escape (they will, they will...)

Section62

Huskymumma said:

I am buying a house currently, and I want to put drive gates on my property and a 5ft fence the left side of my driveway off from next doors (left as I stand facing the house). Its about 6-7 meters down to my garage wall, but there is a weird looking wall between the house I am buying and the neighbours (who I think is very elderly)

...

5ft is more than 1m, and as that looks like a front 'garden' you'll need to get planning consent, in addition to any agreement with the neighbour.

eddddy

You can build a fence just inside your boundary - you don't usually need your neighbour's consent, but maybe you'd mention your plans to your neighbours as a courtesy.

Regarding the existing wall...

• If the wall is on your land, it almost certainly belongs to you - so you are free to take it down, if you wish. But it might be holding the neighbours block paving in place, so you might have to put something in its place.

• If the wall is on your neighbours land, it almost certainly belongs to them - so you don't have the right to do anything to it. (Although the neighbour can choose to give you consent to knock it down, if they want to.)

• If the wall straddles the boundary, it would probably be a 'Party Fence Wall' - and special rules would apply. But that would be unusual.

LightFlare

Also to bear in mind is that the wall may be low in order to give room for the neighbour to actually open their car door - depends on the width of the drive

Ight be very important to them to be able to do this especially if they have young children and/or mobility issues

bobster2

LightFlare said:

Also to bear in mind is that the wall may be low in order to give room for the neighbour to actually open their car door - depends on the width of the drive

Ight be very important to them to be able to do this especially if they have young children and/or mobility issues

As a courtesy. But surely not as a legal right?

LightFlare

bobster2 said:

LightFlare said:

Also to bear in mind is that the wall may be low in order to give room for the neighbour to actually open their car door - depends on the width of the drive

Ight be very important to them to be able to do this especially if they have young children and/or mobility issues

As a courtesy. But surely not as a legal right?

Absolutely - but typically not advised to cause a neighbour dispute if it can be avoided

Bigphil1474

If you are able to do anything with the wall, you may be best replacing the low wall with a concrete post and base fencing system up to the front of the house, with a gate across to the house to enclose it. As mentioned above, there are different rules at the front of the house so it will probably be a 2 part solution. I don't know the technicalities when it comes to where the front begins, but as above, the front is normally limited to 1m unless you want to apply for PP.

ThisIsWeird

Hi Husky. 

Worth having a good look at your deeds map in the first instance, to figure out - as best as possible - who that wall belongs to, on whose land it sits.

It is quite common, for example, for a garage like yours to indicate the boundary line - they are often built right up to the invisible line in order to maximise width, and this would then make the outer skin of your garage the 'boundary'. Of course there are variations to this, with the garage being set slightly within your own land, and that opens the possibility that the weird wall is fully yours, even tho' it runs down the outside edge of your garage. Add to this the also-weird second pillar at the front; why would your neighbour have this pillar if they already own the smaller pillar and wall?

So, we don't know.

Although typically not very accurate, your deeds map might help to clarify this, especially if you also look at your neighbour's copy - downloadable for around a £5 or so from LandReg. If both clearly show the black boundary line as being separate from your garage wall, with a very narrow gap between them, then that would help suggest that the wall is yours. Also look at neighbouring properties if they are of similar styles - very good chance a pattern will appear of these low boundary walls belonging clearly to one side.

So, that's one issue - who the wall belongs to. The other is any Planning restrictions on wall heights on the street side of the houses. These are often for good visibility splay reasons, although this could possibly be mitigated by using an open style that will contain your dawgs, whilst also allowing a clear side view - but I don't know; you'd need to ask Planning.

How to avoid upsetting your new neighbours? By being friendly and open about these sorts of things. Once you've said a few hellos, and also checked out (a) who owns the wall, and (b) whether Planning will allow much of a change, you explain your dilemma and what you hope to do. Explain how it'll be much more attractive and stuff. Perhaps even suggest that you'll listen to what style of fence or wall they'd prefer.

Bottom line, tho', is; if that wall is yours, and if Planning agree to let you put in something taller, then you can do so. This is not a 'dispute' - there is nothing the neighbour can dispute. They might not be happy about it, but that's largely tough. Obviously, if you install a large ugly fence that most passers-by visibly wince at, then you will be an 'ole and deserve to be ostracised by your neighbour. If, however, it is a tasteful and aesthetic asset to both houses, and the neighbour still moans, then you'll have a handle of their calibre.

(If you fit gates, how will they open?)

Dustyevsky

Why can't you erect fencing within your front garden to contain any escapist dogs? It would be possible to do that and stay clear of the boundaries/driveway.

Huskymumma

ThisIsWeird said:

Hi Husky. 

Worth having a good look at your deeds map in the first instance, to figure out - as best as possible - who that wall belongs to, on whose land it sits.

It is quite common, for example, for a garage like yours to indicate the boundary line - they are often built right up to the invisible line in order to maximise width, and this would then make the outer skin of your garage the 'boundary'. Of course there are variations to this, with the garage being set slightly within your own land, and that opens the possibility that the weird wall is fully yours, even tho' it runs down the outside edge of your garage. Add to this the also-weird second pillar at the front; why would your neighbour have this pillar if they already own the smaller pillar and wall?

So, we don't know.

Although typically not very accurate, your deeds map might help to clarify this, especially if you also look at your neighbour's copy - downloadable for around a £5 or so from LandReg. If both clearly show the black boundary line as being separate from your garage wall, with a very narrow gap between them, then that would help suggest that the wall is yours. Also look at neighbouring properties if they are of similar styles - very good chance a pattern will appear of these low boundary walls belonging clearly to one side.

So, that's one issue - who the wall belongs to. The other is any Planning restrictions on wall heights on the street side of the houses. These are often for good visibility splay reasons, although this could possibly be mitigated by using an open style that will contain your dawgs, whilst also allowing a clear side view - but I don't know; you'd need to ask Planning.

How to avoid upsetting your new neighbours? By being friendly and open about these sorts of things. Once you've said a few hellos, and also checked out (a) who owns the wall, and (b) whether Planning will allow much of a change, you explain your dilemma and what you hope to do. Explain how it'll be much more attractive and stuff. Perhaps even suggest that you'll listen to what style of fence or wall they'd prefer.

Bottom line, tho', is; if that wall is yours, and if Planning agree to let you put in something taller, then you can do so. This is not a 'dispute' - there is nothing the neighbour can dispute. They might not be happy about it, but that's largely tough. Obviously, if you install a large ugly fence that most passers-by visibly wince at, then you will be an 'ole and deserve to be ostracised by your neighbour. If, however, it is a tasteful and aesthetic asset to both houses, and the neighbour still moans, then you'll have a handle of their calibre.

(If you fit gates, how will they open?)

Thanks for that detailed reply I really appreciate it, I could probably put a 1.2 meter fence on and then trellis it to make it slightly tall - climbing plants and tall grasses in the longer term.  Our front fence in current house is 1.2 and the dogs (staffy/frenchy crosses) have never got over it. They did learn how to open the front gate though

To be fair I should be stressed about a whole deal more important things than my dogs escaping but I am disabled and would'nt have a hope in hell of catching them again.

I will have a good think about what you have said. I am not a people person so generally it takes neighbours a while to get accustomed to me which I why I am so bothered about making a good impression.  Its  a street full of semi detatched bungalows and fro the decor most of them indicate quite elderly neighbours, and if they have been there a long time I wouldn't want to be a cause of negative speculation or concern,

I will ask the estate agent about the wall and see if the current owner can shed any light on it.  Dreading going through the garage conversion process to thats going to be stressful.