British Airways denied boarding - refusal to rebook and refusal to compensate

saajan_12

Honestly, very long and unnecessary detail both for us and for the complaint to BA, which might have their backs up already.

TLDR: 
1-Jan Flight: OP arrived at the airport to check in and was denied boarding. BA initially said OP was late but they have since confirmed the flight was overbooked and have paid the £520 compensation. 
4-Jan Flight: OP booked a new flight by phone for 4-Jan, but it turns out they had only been placed on a waiting list and there was no seat available. 
6-Jan Flight: OP was re-booked to 6-Jan and travelled. 

Question: Have BA paid the cost of the original flight? (aside from the £520 compo?) If not, then I'd challenge what they are saying here:

Madthinker said:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear [REDACTED]

An update from British Airways

We are sorry you were not happy with our previous response.

We would like to inform you that, due to the disruption you experienced, we may be able to cover the taxi and food expenses that were incurred as a result. However, please note that we will not be able to reimburse you for the cost of an alternate flight.

As per our legal responsibilities, we are only obligated to cover the cost of your original flight and a few related expenses. While we understand this may be frustrating, we recommend reviewing the terms of your travel insurance. Depending on the policy, you might be able to claim the cost of your alternate flight through your insurance provider.

Thank you for getting in touch with us; we hope you find this information helpful.

Overall the outstanding issue is that BA can't have it both ways.. either
A) its one journey, one set of £520 compensation due (though this is questionable still) and the 4/6Jan flights were a replacement for the 1-Jan flight. But then they'd have to pay that £950 replacement flight; 

or OP chose to book a separate flight for £950 as a new booking, but then two lots of £520 due and the original flight on 1-Jan should have been refunded. 

eskbanker

Madthinker said:

eskbanker said:

Assuming OP is able to demonstrate that they were present early enough to comply with minimum checkin times, etc, then denial of boarding triggers both fixed-rate compensation (£520pp for this) under article 7 and rebooking or refund under article 8:

[redacted]

Therefore, when refusing boarding of the first flight, BA's obligation wasn't simply to pay £520 compensation, but also to rebook OP onto another flight at their (BA's) expense, so if OP paid to do that then this higher ticket cost should be recoverable from BA.

Unless I'm misreading the lengthy posts (and, like others, it's entirely plausible that I missed details within all that), OP is indeed due two separate sets of £520 compensation and any money spent on tickets over and above the original purchase.

Thanks for the link.

I don't think I can demonstrate that I was early enough to comply with minimum check in times (I had not even considered the need to record any evidence).  The texts to my wife "I am in a long queue" were the first record of any potential issue.  The timestamps do show that I was early enough to be there when they were supposedly still calling people through.

Isn't this a moot point though - if BA have confirmed overbooking and provided compensation (for the flight of 1st), then would it not automatically follow that they also are required to rebook (and therefore required to compensate for the refusal to rebook).

Yes, the point I was making is that the regulations "shall apply on the condition that passengers have a confirmed reservation on the flight concerned and, except in the case of cancellation referred to in Article 5, present themselves for check-in, as stipulated and at the time indicated in advance and in writing (including by electronic means) by the air carrier, the tour operator or an authorised travel agent, or, if no time is indicated, not later than 45 minutes before the published departure time", i.e. if you don't present yourself for check in on time then the regulations don't apply.

Note also the reference to having "a confirmed reservation on the flight concerned", which may affect your ability to secure 'denied boarding' compensation for the second flight, if the confirmation status of the reservation is in question - you obviously have reasons to believe that you had a confirmed reservation but BA's systems (eventually) disagreed and payment was never taken....

Madthinker

p.s. if I haven't done so explicitly, thank you to all for wading through this and commenting.

It seems the consensus is that I should be entitled to a refund of the rebooked flight.

Whether 1 or 2 sets of compensation are due appears to reduce to the outcome for the simplified scenario:
- passenger is denied boarding by airline on day 1 and is rebooked for day 4
- passenger is denied boarding by airline on day 4, and is rebooked for day 6
The consensus for this second issue appears to be mixed.

Fwiw, I do feel like two sets of compensation are owed.  From a financial perspective, I had to book another day off work, and I buy leave from my employer, plus the cost of Ubers etc.  And also the stress/anxiety - it nearly broke me when the assistant dismissively told me to just to return to the airport on 6th, even while I showed her that the BA check-in app was still telling me I had a flight that day.  I was lucky enough to have family who could give me a place to stay and a credit card that could take another £911 - I really don't know what would have happened otherwise.

eskbanker

Madthinker said:

Fwiw, I do feel like two sets of compensation are owed.  From a financial perspective, I had to book another day off work, and I buy leave from my employer, plus the cost of Ubers etc.  And also the stress/anxiety - it nearly broke me when the assistant dismissively told me to just to return to the airport on 6th, even while I showed her that the BA check-in app was still telling me I had a flight that day.  I was lucky enough to have family who could give me a place to stay and a credit card that could take another £911 - I really don't know what would have happened otherwise.

While understandable, those factors aren't relevant to your actual rights, i.e. the airline's liabilities are defined by the regulations themselves, rather than any consequential employment matters or stress/anxiety.

mdann52

Did you check the "View and Manage more flight details" section of the app before the 4th? And if so, did it show an eTicket number and "Confirmed" against the reservation?

It does seem that BA sold you an eTicket on the 4th, but for a standby seat. If this is the case, unfortunately I think you'd only be due compensation for the 1st flight, along with any transport costs, plus additional accommodation costs if immediately returning home was not feasible.

I'm also of the opinion that you are entitled for a refund for the second flight under Article 8 due to BA not offering you rerouting after the IDB as required by Article 4. I can't see how you're entitled to a refund for the first flight.

bagand96

Madthinker said:

Caz3121 said:

Madthinker said:

So, I think you are saying that I should be refunded the cost of the flight of 6th Jan (£911), but you don't believe any further compensation is due?

I would agree with that 
I am surprised that a rebooking (at no cost to yourself) was not dealt with at the airport at the time which would usually be the case. Was this refused as they considered you late?
Note that the cutoff is when you get to the front of the queue at the desk not when you arrive at the airport or are in the queue. If you got to the desk after cutoff then they are under no obligation to rebook you. 
however the fact that they have now paid you compensation for being denied boarding...for which you need to have been at the desk before closure should help your case for the refund of the replacement flight although I suspect it will not be without a bit of a battle.

Does that not incentivise airlines, when they know they have an overbooking issue, to prevent people checking in online, and dealing extremely slowly with the queue?  Which seems to be exactly what happened in my case.

I'm not sure if you've what time you arrived at the airport? You've made reference to 18:22 as you messaged your wife.

Scheduled departure time of BA2040 was 19:40. Personally I'd say 80mins before a flight is very tight, especially if I'd not been able to check on online. Not sure if you had checked luggage or not but I'd always leave at least two hours in that case.

BA state check in closes at least 60mins before departure. But that's closure of checkin, not a "latest you can arrive"

It is a moot point though as you've said, if they'd paid £520 UK261 compo then they're admitting liability and should reimburse your rebooking costs. 

brianposter

One thing seems to be clear from this thread. When making the claim the OP needs to present two accounts of events - the first short and simple, and subsequently a more detailed appendix "because BA staff appear regularly to describe passengers refused boarding as "no-shows""

Madthinker

saajan_12 said:

Honestly, very long and unnecessary detail both for us and for the complaint to BA, which might have their backs up already.

TLDR: 
1-Jan Flight: OP arrived at the airport to check in and was denied boarding. BA initially said OP was late but they have since confirmed the flight was overbooked and have paid the £520 compensation. 
4-Jan Flight: OP booked a new flight by phone for 4-Jan, but it turns out they had only been placed on a waiting list and there was no seat available. 
6-Jan Flight: OP was re-booked to 6-Jan and travelled. 

Question: Have BA paid the cost of the original flight? (aside from the £520 compo?) If not, then I'd challenge what they are saying here:

Madthinker said:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear [REDACTED]

An update from British Airways

We are sorry you were not happy with our previous response.

We would like to inform you that, due to the disruption you experienced, we may be able to cover the taxi and food expenses that were incurred as a result. However, please note that we will not be able to reimburse you for the cost of an alternate flight.

As per our legal responsibilities, we are only obligated to cover the cost of your original flight and a few related expenses. While we understand this may be frustrating, we recommend reviewing the terms of your travel insurance. Depending on the policy, you might be able to claim the cost of your alternate flight through your insurance provider.

Thank you for getting in touch with us; we hope you find this information helpful.

Overall the outstanding issue is that BA can't have it both ways.. either
A) its one journey, one set of £520 compensation due (though this is questionable still) and the 4/6Jan flights were a replacement for the 1-Jan flight. But then they'd have to pay that £950 replacement flight; 

or OP chose to book a separate flight for £950 as a new booking, but then two lots of £520 due and the original flight on 1-Jan should have been refunded. 

Just to confirm on this - BA have not refunded the original flight cost despite me pointing out to them the contradiction between this stance and their own perception of their obligations that you highlight in bold.

Madthinker

mdann52 said:

Did you check the "View and Manage more flight details" section of the app before the 4th? And if so, did it show an eTicket number and "Confirmed" against the reservation?

It does seem that BA sold you an eTicket on the 4th, but for a standby seat. If this is the case, unfortunately I think you'd only be due compensation for the 1st flight, along with any transport costs, plus additional accommodation costs if immediately returning home was not feasible.

I'm also of the opinion that you are entitled for a refund for the second flight under Article 8 due to BA not offering you rerouting after the IDB as required by Article 4. I can't see how you're entitled to a refund for the first flight.

I could not get as far as a page to manage my flight details or see an eticket number.

From 19:47 the day before (i.e., 3rd), to 13:30 on 4th the message displayed was "We're sorry, we cannot complete online check-in for this flight on this occasion.  Please proceed to the airport with your required documentation in order to check-in and collect your boarding pass"

At :16:55 on 4th, it said that "Your next flight is from Cape Town to London on Saturday 4th January.  Online check-in is currently unavailable, please check-in at the airport"

Based on the above (my bold), plus my previous call with the agent, my interpretation was that the reservation was confirmed, and that they would check me in at the airport

At 18:28 on 4th, it said "Sorry, on-line check-in is not available because you do not have a confirmed reservation for this flight".

These are the timestamps of screenshots I have kept - I don't know at what point in between things changed.

Since my OP, I have, as a result of a data rectification request, received from BA received the following information.  My interpretation is that this is consistent with the above - the first attempted check-in (aside from my earlier online attempts) is showing as 15:02, which is roughly when I arrived at the airport.  I was then offloaded at 18:00.  This would appear to suggest that they only decided to kick me off the flight between these times.  That said, there's a lot of jargon I don't understand.

I 

Madthinker

bagand96 said:

Madthinker said:

Caz3121 said:

Madthinker said:

So, I think you are saying that I should be refunded the cost of the flight of 6th Jan (£911), but you don't believe any further compensation is due?

I would agree with that 
I am surprised that a rebooking (at no cost to yourself) was not dealt with at the airport at the time which would usually be the case. Was this refused as they considered you late?
Note that the cutoff is when you get to the front of the queue at the desk not when you arrive at the airport or are in the queue. If you got to the desk after cutoff then they are under no obligation to rebook you. 
however the fact that they have now paid you compensation for being denied boarding...for which you need to have been at the desk before closure should help your case for the refund of the replacement flight although I suspect it will not be without a bit of a battle.

Does that not incentivise airlines, when they know they have an overbooking issue, to prevent people checking in online, and dealing extremely slowly with the queue?  Which seems to be exactly what happened in my case.

I'm not sure if you've what time you arrived at the airport? You've made reference to 18:22 as you messaged your wife.

Scheduled departure time of BA2040 was 19:40. Personally I'd say 80mins before a flight is very tight, especially if I'd not been able to check on online. Not sure if you had checked luggage or not but I'd always leave at least two hours in that case.

BA state check in closes at least 60mins before departure. But that's closure of checkin, not a "latest you can arrive"

It is a moot point though as you've said, if they'd paid £520 UK261 compo then they're admitting liability and should reimburse your rebooking costs. 

I don't know exactly what time I arrived, except that it was some time before 18:22.  I made reference to this time because it was the only proof I had.

Certainly agree that it would be prudent to arrive a lot earlier 80 minutes before a flight.  If there's two things this has taught me it is that not being able to check in on line is a sign that they want to kick you off the flight (and hence to turn up as early as possible), and (b) to record proof of arrival time at the airport.