Solicitor retainer is to only chase once a week? 6 months in with no exchange date

pinkandblue1

Hi all,

I’ve searched through other threads but couldn’t find a similar situation, so I thought I’d post here.

We are first-time buyers purchasing a chain-free leasehold flat. We began the process on September 19th, but as of today, there is no clear end in sight. Seven enquiries remain outstanding, and we are still waiting for a Deed of Variation (DoV) on the ground rent to be completed. Our fees have reached £5,000, and our mortgage offer expires next month.

The process has been incredibly stressful. Despite being told the first management pack was ordered in October, it was actually ordered in late November and didn’t arrive until December. We then learned a second pack was required from the landlord, which wasn’t ordered until the end of January. On top of that, a DoV on the ground rent was needed to proceed, costing £1800. The estate agent initially claimed this could be done in two weeks (since the flat next door are going through the same process so have the docs), but it only just began after five weeks of waiting.

Our solicitor says their contract includes a retainer limiting the amount of chasing they will do. However, all I can find in the contract is a commitment to provide a weekly update - nothing about only chasing when bloody asked. When I queried this with client services, I received a condescending three-paragraph response along with a link to their complaints procedure - despite not even making a formal complaint.

The seller’s solicitor has been unprofessional and has multiple online complaints against them, as well as a complaint from the seller themself. After the seller complained, the solicitor returned all enquiries marked as "to follow," seemingly to give the impression of progress. Yesterday, she even hung up on our mortgage broker. We have asked the estate agent to urge the seller to file another complaint against their solicitor, which they claim they will do.

We are at our breaking point and have informed the estate agent that if this isn't actioned, we will walk away. 

Has anyone experienced something similar or have any advice? This is the condensed version of a much longer story, so feel free to ask questions if needed.

Thanks!

AskAsk

once a week update is actually quite a lot!  from my experience of conveyancers, they look at the file once every two weeks.

sounds like the seller is either slow themselves or their solicitors is slow.  you either carry on with it, or drop it.  personally it sounds like a hassle as 6 months in and you are no where near to exhange.

go look for another property to buy as this one is going no where.

EssexHebridean

Most solicitors don’t have any sort of fixed timeline in which to look at files - if stuff comes in that needs urgent attention it will piggyback over other files which are less urgent - for example right now matters which are hoped to progress to complete prior to the end of the month will be being prioritised over those that cannot possibly do so - most people would understand why and if theirs was one of the files being got to the line ahead of the SDLT changes, would certainly want things to be that way! 

Listening to an Estate Agents idea of how fast something legal can be completed is always a mistake I am afraid. They have no more expertise to base their frequently “wildly optimistic” timelines in than you do. 2 weeks for a deed of variation would be quite astonishingly fast…some might say implausibly so. 

gm0

When a lawyer paid by you makes a list of title and searches issues.  They raise EVERYTHING.  This discharges their duties to you.  No risk of comeback to them. For it forming part of the conveyancing contract and not raising it with you. Do thing. Get paid.  No comeback.

They also raise clarifying queries with the other side (doing the same) on some of the list of ambiguities.  They don't tend to prioritise aggressively to filter the list down.

These generate Q&A, correspondence, indemnity policies, deeds of variation, other seller declarations.  Extra checks (electric, heating etc.). Each generates possible extra work and revenue for both the lawyers. Some are worthwhile.  Some maybe less so.  There is incentive misalignment.  More work and delay - more revenue for them. Issues for you. And seller.  And costs for both - if the transaction fails to complete.

You sometimes need to get your hired solicitor under control and take control of what legally identifiable potential risks are ACTUALLY material (to you).  And which are NOT.  Because you value completing the transaction over corresponding over colouring in details on more trivial items/risks - which are now known to exist - and in the price of the transaction if you proceed - but not in fact showstoppers regardless of the exact shade of green once more legal discourse has taken place.

You are in control of your own transaction.  You can filter the list to things which matter to you.  Or let the thing play out at the slowest pace of thoughtful ping pong by letter you will likely ever experience in a work context. 

When you raise follow up questions - consider what answers you may receive and how you feel about them.  Is it in fact worth a month's wait and mortgage reapplication to find out about that item.

A seller who has doubt/ambiguity on a queried issue - which could long predate their ownership - may well be advised by their conveyancer not to reply meaningfully at all.  To avoid a "turns out to be false" declaration.  This is good advice to them.  So to in legalese they truthfully say "we don't know - you now have the documents we know about - which exist - and we are taking no further action to sort out the 1970s - that's all you get - you can proceed or not - over to you buyer". 

Or they MIGHT give you a more detailed reassurance, buy indemnity insurance sticky tape or something else - as advised by their solicitor.  A process of extra interactions.  Cycle times of 2-4 weeks for conversations about issues can happen.  And multiple cycles for issues can happen.  Months go by.

The longer the list of cruft and trivia - the longer this takes until someone sits down and shuts it down.  This is what we have.  Are we proceeding to exchange. 

Some properties have lots of cruft.  Some have almost none.  Impossible to generalise.  Leasehold is worse than freehold - because more stuff.  But utilities, access over, enclosed adjacent title, drainage - lots of things can create historic messes which are in the real world close to irrelevant.  But "in theory" in a lawyer's rooms - remember this is a lawyer who has never seen the site - carry a small hypothetical risk that someone could challenge something - even if this hasn't happened for 30 years.  The lawyer needs to help you understand which things are BIG.  And which things are not.  From a legal perspective.  They dislike providing this advice - becuase - liability.  And it can be wrong.  The longshot can come up.

A lot of people think that they need to resolve all cruft and force a seller to tidy up at their own expense.  Because when they come to sell this mess can put people off or cause issues. Well guess again. 

What is considered canon for conveyancing "normal" and things which are cruft needing indemnity or deeds and declarations - changes over time.  You can't achieve lasting perfection anyway.  It is a fools errand.

Review the list and compare the size of them with the hassle and impact of delay. 

Your solicitor doesn't care if you instruct them to proceed to exchange having raised the long list.  They will push back harder on more major items.  Which is in fact the more honest conversation about what's real and what's not.

Odd drafting on a very old wayleave drafted by the long dead.  Which would be done differently 50 years later.  Wow.  You don't say.   This is not the same as a risk the property becomes landlocked.  No access rights.  Until negotiated or paid for separately.  Or the title doesn't match the boundaries and part of the house being sold is in fact encroaching - a hostage to others.

TL:DR;  you may need to do the thing the lawyer won't.  Prioritise.

Hoenir

pinkandblue1 said:

Our solicitor says their contract includes a retainer limiting the amount of chasing they will do.  However, all I can find in the contract is a commitment to provide a weekly update - nothing about only chasing when bloody asked. 

Solicitors generate revenue by charging for their time. Doesn't just pay their own salary. It covers the office rent and rates, the receptionsts wages, insurances, light and heat , telephone bills etc etc. If you want somebody to drop whatever productive fee work their doing. To act immediately on your requests.  Then be prepared to pay for it. 

pinkandblue1

gm0 said:

When a lawyer paid by you makes a list of title and searches issues.  They raise EVERYTHING.  This discharges their duties to you.  No risk of comeback to them. For it forming part of the conveyancing contract and not raising it with you. Do thing. Get paid.  No comeback.

They also raise clarifying queries with the other side (doing the same) on some of the list of ambiguities.  They don't tend to prioritise aggressively to filter the list down.

These generate Q&A, correspondence, indemnity policies, deeds of variation, other seller declarations.  Extra checks (electric, heating etc.). Each generates possible extra work and revenue for both the lawyers. Some are worthwhile.  Some maybe less so.  There is incentive misalignment.  More work and delay - more revenue for them. Issues for you. And seller.  And costs for both - if the transaction fails to complete.

You sometimes need to get your hired solicitor under control and take control of what legally identifiable potential risks are ACTUALLY material (to you).  And which are NOT.  Because you value completing the transaction over corresponding over colouring in details on more trivial items/risks - which are now known to exist - and in the price of the transaction if you proceed - but not in fact showstoppers regardless of the exact shade of green once more legal discourse has taken place.

You are in control of your own transaction.  You can filter the list to things which matter to you.  Or let the thing play out at the slowest pace of thoughtful ping pong by letter you will likely ever experience in a work context. 

When you raise follow up questions - consider what answers you may receive and how you feel about them.  Is it in fact worth a month's wait and mortgage reapplication to find out about that item.

A seller who has doubt/ambiguity on a queried issue - which could long predate their ownership - may well be advised by their conveyancer not to reply meaningfully at all.  To avoid a "turns out to be false" declaration.  This is good advice to them.  So to in legalese they truthfully say "we don't know - you now have the documents we know about - which exist - and we are taking no further action to sort out the 1970s - that's all you get - you can proceed or not - over to you buyer". 

Or they MIGHT give you a more detailed reassurance, buy indemnity insurance sticky tape or something else - as advised by their solicitor.  A process of extra interactions.  Cycle times of 2-4 weeks for conversations about issues can happen.  And multiple cycles for issues can happen.  Months go by.

The longer the list of cruft and trivia - the longer this takes until someone sits down and shuts it down.  This is what we have.  Are we proceeding to exchange. 

Some properties have lots of cruft.  Some have almost none.  Impossible to generalise.  Leasehold is worse than freehold - because more stuff.  But utilities, access over, enclosed adjacent title, drainage - lots of things can create historic messes which are in the real world close to irrelevant.  But "in theory" in a lawyer's rooms - remember this is a lawyer who has never seen the site - carry a small hypothetical risk that someone could challenge something - even if this hasn't happened for 30 years.  The lawyer needs to help you understand which things are BIG.  And which things are not.  From a legal perspective.  They dislike providing this advice - becuase - liability.  And it can be wrong.  The longshot can come up.

A lot of people think that they need to resolve all cruft and force a seller to tidy up at their own expense.  Because when they come to sell this mess can put people off or cause issues. Well guess again. 

What is considered canon for conveyancing "normal" and things which are cruft needing indemnity or deeds and declarations - changes over time.  You can't achieve lasting perfection anyway.  It is a fools errand.

Review the list and compare the size of them with the hassle and impact of delay. 

Your solicitor doesn't care if you instruct them to proceed to exchange having raised the long list.  They will push back harder on more major items.  Which is in fact the more honest conversation about what's real and what's not.

Odd drafting on a very old wayleave drafted by the long dead.  Which would be done differently 50 years later.  Wow.  You don't say.   This is not the same as a risk the property becomes landlocked.  No access rights.  Until negotiated or paid for separately.  Or the title doesn't match the boundaries and part of the house being sold is in fact encroaching - a hostage to others.

TL:DR;  you may need to do the thing the lawyer won't.  Prioritise.

Thank you for taking the time to write on my post and your information is very helpful! Apologies I missed the notification. 

Fortunately we received the enquiries back, there is now 3 remaining (one in which is answered - the sellers solicitor just forgot the attachment!) one is them awaiting the DoV and then the freehold title plan.

But then unfortunately, we have received email from the EA to say the Freehold title may be missing and if they will accept indemnity policy. To which my solicitor is now saying she may not be able to proceed and needs more information as expected. 

Very stressful.