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Fund price on contract note query
Comments
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Perhaps I should add that I also hold Vanguard Developed World ex UK Income with iWeb. Both Vanguard and iWeb have always paid dividends at the same rate when I have checked, but that rate has always differed slightly from that on Vanguard's public website. As I have said, Vanguard has corrected the website when I have bothered to chase them. I would have hoped that the FCA would be checking that the correct dividends are being paid, but I do not have much confidence in that.I thought that inaccurate historical numbers was a Vanguard specific problem, but it is interesting to see that HSBC may be just as bad.0
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wmb194 said:
Depends on the platform. Not in this one but I own institutional units in some OEICs.GeoffTF said:
No. The price of the income units is very different. There are institutional units, but the OP will not be able to buy those.k12479 said:Could the differences possibly be due to different share classes?Charles Stanley seems to offer the institutional plus version of the fund:I could not see any others. Charles Stanley has a 0.3% platform fee, which more than wipes out any saving from using the institutional plus version:0 -
The point is, institutional versions of various Oeics are available to retail investors.GeoffTF said:wmb194 said:
Depends on the platform. Not in this one but I own institutional units in some OEICs.GeoffTF said:
No. The price of the income units is very different. There are institutional units, but the OP will not be able to buy those.k12479 said:Could the differences possibly be due to different share classes?Charles Stanley seems to offer the institutional plus version of the fund:I could not see any others. Charles Stanley has a 0.3% platform fee, which more than wipes out any saving from using the institutional plus version:0 -
If it's any help, you can download the HSBC NAV prices here:
https://www.assetmanagement.hsbc.co.uk/en/institutional-investor/funds/gb00bmjjjf91?t=2
This does confirm 317.96 on the 5th, so I would also be interested in finding out where the discrepancy comes from, if you manage to find out.
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wmb194 said:
The point is, institutional versions of various Oeics are available to retail investors.GeoffTF said:wmb194 said:
Depends on the platform. Not in this one but I own institutional units in some OEICs.GeoffTF said:
No. The price of the income units is very different. There are institutional units, but the OP will not be able to buy those.k12479 said:Could the differences possibly be due to different share classes?Charles Stanley seems to offer the institutional plus version of the fund:I could not see any others. Charles Stanley has a 0.3% platform fee, which more than wipes out any saving from using the institutional plus version:The original point was whether the price discrepancy could be explained by different share classes. Here are the two prices at the close of business yesterday:https://www.vanguard.co.uk/professional/product/fund/equity/9294/ftse-developed-world-ex-uk-equity-index-fund-institutional-plus-gbp-acc
https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-ftse-developed-world-ex-uk-equity-index-fund-gbp-acc/overviewIt is clear that is not the explanation, the prices of the retail and institutional plus funds are very different. The OP said he was using HL. HL does not appear to list the institutional plus version of the fund anyway. HL is an expensive choice for holding OEICs, but that is beside the point here.1 -
You stated that institutional versions aren’t available to retail investors, I was correcting that point.GeoffTF said:wmb194 said:
The point is, institutional versions of various Oeics are available to retail investors.GeoffTF said:wmb194 said:
Depends on the platform. Not in this one but I own institutional units in some OEICs.GeoffTF said:
No. The price of the income units is very different. There are institutional units, but the OP will not be able to buy those.k12479 said:Could the differences possibly be due to different share classes?Charles Stanley seems to offer the institutional plus version of the fund:I could not see any others. Charles Stanley has a 0.3% platform fee, which more than wipes out any saving from using the institutional plus version:The original point was whether the price discrepancy could be explained by different share classes. Here are the two prices at the close of business yesterday:https://www.vanguard.co.uk/professional/product/fund/equity/9294/ftse-developed-world-ex-uk-equity-index-fund-institutional-plus-gbp-acc
https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-ftse-developed-world-ex-uk-equity-index-fund-gbp-acc/overviewIt is clear that is not the explanation, the prices of the retail and institutional plus funds are very different. The OP said he was using HL. HL does not appear to list the institutional plus version of the fund anyway. HL is an expensive choice for holding OEICs, but that is beside the point here.0 -
wmb194 said:
You stated that institutional versions aren’t available to retail investors, I was correcting that point.GeoffTF said:wmb194 said:
The point is, institutional versions of various Oeics are available to retail investors.GeoffTF said:wmb194 said:
Depends on the platform. Not in this one but I own institutional units in some OEICs.GeoffTF said:
No. The price of the income units is very different. There are institutional units, but the OP will not be able to buy those.k12479 said:Could the differences possibly be due to different share classes?Charles Stanley seems to offer the institutional plus version of the fund:I could not see any others. Charles Stanley has a 0.3% platform fee, which more than wipes out any saving from using the institutional plus version:The original point was whether the price discrepancy could be explained by different share classes. Here are the two prices at the close of business yesterday:https://www.vanguard.co.uk/professional/product/fund/equity/9294/ftse-developed-world-ex-uk-equity-index-fund-institutional-plus-gbp-acc
https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-ftse-developed-world-ex-uk-equity-index-fund-gbp-acc/overviewIt is clear that is not the explanation, the prices of the retail and institutional plus funds are very different. The OP said he was using HL. HL does not appear to list the institutional plus version of the fund anyway. HL is an expensive choice for holding OEICs, but that is beside the point here.I wrote "The price of the income units is very different. There are institutional units, but the OP will not be able to buy those." The context was the income units of Vanguard Developed Would ex UK. (You can see that from my previous post, but I did not make that clear.) I was well aware that other fund managers offered institutional units on some platforms, but not Vanguard. When I looked previously, none of the UK retail platforms offered the institutional plus units. Charles Stanley now seems to be offering them, as I have already said.It is a poor show that Charles Stanley is listing them, but Vanguard is not offering them on its own platform. There are precedents for Vanguard failing to offer its own funds when they are offered on other platforms, but not simply to short change its own customers. I have a large holding of the retail units with a large capital gain in my Vanguard General Account. Offering the institutional plus version for new purchases would not help me. Converting my holding to institutional plus would help, as would cutting the cost of the retail fund.0 -
caper7 said:Hargreaves Lansdown ISA.
I put in an order for two funds on the 4 March, the transactions happened on the 5th and the contract note is dated 5th.
-HSBC FTSE all world index class c acc
-Vanguard FTSE dev world ex UK acc
I thought funds had one daily price unlike shares, and I don't believe there are any fees for buying funds in an HL ISA, but the price on the contract note doesn't match the price for that day (5th).
HSBC: HL own website says 317.96
Contract note says 317.998728
Vanguard: HL own website says 70420.95
Contract note says 70422.53521
I called HL, they said HSBC was a "rounding" thing, but I don't understand how 317.96 becomes 317.998728Suppose you placed an order for £150. The fund prices are all in pence, so that's 15,000p. How many units should you get?15,000 / 317.96 = 47.175745376777But there is a limit to how many decimal places are used for units of funds. I think HSBC funds use 2 decimal places, so perhaps you only get 47.17 units (though that's a bit harsh, rounding it down when rounding up to 47.18 would be nearer to the exact answer).What price per unit have you paid, in effect? That's:15,000 / 47.17 = 317.998728005088which agrees with the contract note (except that they rounded it to fewer decimal places).You might argue that, if you're only getting 47.17 units, you should really only be charged:47.17 * 317.96 = 14,998(Rounded to the nearest penny.) If you're wondering where your missing 2p has gone, then you've clearly never been to the HL Christmas party (or is it the HSBC Christmas party?).Rounding (and not what HL said) can also explain the Vanguard fund pricing. Suppose your order is for 15,000p (again). How many units should you get?15,000 / 70420.95 = 0.21300479473793I think Vanguard round units to 4 decimal places, so that gives you 0.2130 units (though, as it happens, 3 or 5 decimal places would give the same answer in this case).What price per unit have you effectively paid?15,000 / 0.2130 = 70422.5352112676which, again, agrees with the contract note (except that it has fewer decimal places).What might you argue you should really be charged for 0.2130 units?0.2130 * 70420.95 = 15,000
(To the nearest penny.) So, in this case, there is nothing to argue about. Bad luck for attendees of the Vanguard Christmas party!4
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