Housing Association Boundary Issue

ThisIsWeird

positivityonly123 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

positivityonly123 said:

My house borders a housing association development.  The previous owner was approached when the development was built and asked if he would consider removing his existing conifer hedge boundary and they would then replace it with a new fence.  He agreed.  The conifer stumps were left in situ and a fence was erected next to them.  Move forward 20 years and the fence is in a state of repair.  The tenants do not look after the garden or fence.  The fence is currently leaning against my summer house and casing damage.  I raised this issue with the housing association 18 months ago and was ignored.  I have raised a complaint 10 days ago and have now been told as its my boundary they will not repair the fence.  I did try to approach the tenant but was not greeted in a very neighbourly manner.  I know boundaries and fences are a huge pain the rear but does anyone have any advice or is it down to me to repair a structure they erected?  Any advice welcome and thank you in advance 
 

"The conifer stumps were left in situ and a fence was erected next to them." Could you clarify, please - this conifer hedge was fully within your land? And the new fence was positioned - where, exactly, in relation to this?

"The tenants do not look after the garden or fence." Under most standard rental agreements, the tenant should maintain the premises, including outdoor areas, in a manner expected of an owner. So, the HA could - if they felt inclined - oblige their tenants to maintain the garden a bit better, but - hey - no skin of the HA's nose if they don't. However, the landlord - the HA - is responsible for the fences that they are, er, responsible for. So, the Q is - is this fence on your, or the HA's side of the boundary?

"The fence is currently leaning against my summer house and causing damage." And there's the rub. IF this fence is the HA's, then you can certainly take action to oblige them to prevent any damage to your property from their poorly-maintained fence. However, if it's actually your fence, then tough.

So, whose fence is it? The essential answer is - on whosever land it sits. The HA may well have given you a new fence 20 years ago, but if it's on your land, it's effectively your fence - I cannot see any way you can oblige them to replace 'your' fence. You could - possibly - oblige them to remove 'their' fence which is on your land, but that won't get you very far. 

If this fence is effectively yours, and if you wish to protect yourself from some druggies, then stick up a new solid fence on your land.

The funny ('peculiar', not 'ha-ha') thing is, if the HA's tenants had dawgs, then they would be responsible for keeping them secured within their garden. But, humans? Nope.

The original conifer hedge was on my land, the new fence is on their land past my stumps towards their property.  The have/had a dog and chickens. 
I think they are trying to 'fob me off' as i've been told the HA goes round to the property in question and they are not let into the property.  In the 20 years i've lived here as far as neighbours go they cause me no issues, noise or problems but hey do not look after the property at all, its just the HA that are rubbish to deal with.  

Tenants have a general obligation - written into their tenancy agreement - to keep the outdoor areas tidy, and the LL could enforce this is they felt inclined, at ultimate pain of eviction. But fences are the responsibility of the landlord - the HA in this case.
From what you've described, it would appear as tho' they made the conscious decision to leave the conifer stumps in place, and to position the fence on their side of this. Of course, we don't know where the true, exact boundary line lies (do we?), but if their intention had been to leave 'ownership and responsibility' as before - yours - then they'd surely have fully removed your trees first, and positioned the fence in the same place?
So, chances are, I think, this fence is positioned on their side of the boundary, so is fully theirs. Another reason that they should continue ownership is that you had a boundary hedge that you were 'happy' with - no reason for you to change this - but you agreed to let them replace it with a fence on their side instead. So, the fence is all theirs. Probably.
What does that mean? Well, unless the deeds state in writing that one must maintain a physical fence in good order, then there is no way to insist folk do this - so you couldn't force a neighbour to fix their fence, and they not yours. A couple of exceptions, tho'; one is if they need to keeps dogs or other animals secure within their premises, and the other is if a failing fence is causing damage. You seem to have them on both counts.
Do you have Legal Protection in your insurance policy? If so, you should be on safe and easy ground - just call them up for guidance.
I'd also take photos of where their fence is touching any of your property, of the stuff they are leaning against it, and of any gaps that are appearing where their dog could get through. Then reply to their last letter, explaining why the existing fence is 'theirs' - don't forget the current employees may not be aware of what was agreed 20 years ago, so explain what happened, and that the fence is now on their side of the boundary. Then explain the damage being caused, and that they have dogs that are at risk of escaping,  and that you will hold them liable for any damage caused. 
LegProt? Peasy. If not, you'll need a 'letter before action' type letter template.

positivityonly123

ThisIsWeird said:

positivityonly123 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

positivityonly123 said:

My house borders a housing association development.  The previous owner was approached when the development was built and asked if he would consider removing his existing conifer hedge boundary and they would then replace it with a new fence.  He agreed.  The conifer stumps were left in situ and a fence was erected next to them.  Move forward 20 years and the fence is in a state of repair.  The tenants do not look after the garden or fence.  The fence is currently leaning against my summer house and casing damage.  I raised this issue with the housing association 18 months ago and was ignored.  I have raised a complaint 10 days ago and have now been told as its my boundary they will not repair the fence.  I did try to approach the tenant but was not greeted in a very neighbourly manner.  I know boundaries and fences are a huge pain the rear but does anyone have any advice or is it down to me to repair a structure they erected?  Any advice welcome and thank you in advance 
 

"The conifer stumps were left in situ and a fence was erected next to them." Could you clarify, please - this conifer hedge was fully within your land? And the new fence was positioned - where, exactly, in relation to this?

"The tenants do not look after the garden or fence." Under most standard rental agreements, the tenant should maintain the premises, including outdoor areas, in a manner expected of an owner. So, the HA could - if they felt inclined - oblige their tenants to maintain the garden a bit better, but - hey - no skin of the HA's nose if they don't. However, the landlord - the HA - is responsible for the fences that they are, er, responsible for. So, the Q is - is this fence on your, or the HA's side of the boundary?

"The fence is currently leaning against my summer house and causing damage." And there's the rub. IF this fence is the HA's, then you can certainly take action to oblige them to prevent any damage to your property from their poorly-maintained fence. However, if it's actually your fence, then tough.

So, whose fence is it? The essential answer is - on whosever land it sits. The HA may well have given you a new fence 20 years ago, but if it's on your land, it's effectively your fence - I cannot see any way you can oblige them to replace 'your' fence. You could - possibly - oblige them to remove 'their' fence which is on your land, but that won't get you very far. 

If this fence is effectively yours, and if you wish to protect yourself from some druggies, then stick up a new solid fence on your land.

The funny ('peculiar', not 'ha-ha') thing is, if the HA's tenants had dawgs, then they would be responsible for keeping them secured within their garden. But, humans? Nope.

The original conifer hedge was on my land, the new fence is on their land past my stumps towards their property.  The have/had a dog and chickens. 
I think they are trying to 'fob me off' as i've been told the HA goes round to the property in question and they are not let into the property.  In the 20 years i've lived here as far as neighbours go they cause me no issues, noise or problems but hey do not look after the property at all, its just the HA that are rubbish to deal with.  

Tenants have a general obligation - written into their tenancy agreement - to keep the outdoor areas tidy, and the LL could enforce this is they felt inclined, at ultimate pain of eviction. But fences are the responsibility of the landlord - the HA in this case.
From what you've described, it would appear as tho' they made the conscious decision to leave the conifer stumps in place, and to position the fence on their side of this. Of course, we don't know where the true, exact boundary line lies (do we?), but if their intention had been to leave 'ownership and responsibility' as before - yours - then they'd surely have fully removed your trees first, and positioned the fence in the same place?
So, chances are, I think, this fence is positioned on their side of the boundary, so is fully theirs. Another reason that they should continue ownership is that you had a boundary hedge that you were 'happy' with - no reason for you to change this - but you agreed to let them replace it with a fence on their side instead. So, the fence is all theirs. Probably.
What does that mean? Well, unless the deeds state in writing that one must maintain a physical fence in good order, then there is no way to insist folk do this - so you couldn't force a neighbour to fix their fence, and they not yours. A couple of exceptions, tho'; one is if they need to keeps dogs or other animals secure within their premises, and the other is if a failing fence is causing damage. You seem to have them on both counts.
Do you have Legal Protection in your insurance policy? If so, you should be on safe and easy ground - just call them up for guidance.
I'd also take photos of where their fence is touching any of your property, of the stuff they are leaning against it, and of any gaps that are appearing where their dog could get through. Then reply to their last letter, explaining why the existing fence is 'theirs' - don't forget the current employees may not be aware of what was agreed 20 years ago, so explain what happened, and that the fence is now on their side of the boundary. Then explain the damage being caused, and that they have dogs that are at risk of escaping,  and that you will hold them liable for any damage caused. 
LegProt? Peasy. If not, you'll need a 'letter before action' type letter template.

Thank you so much for the advice ;-)