Pension performing poorly, shall I move it?

kimwp

LowCreditSteve said:

Wow what is the hostility for my guy?

dunstonh said:

When I switch to the growth tab to see how I was doing as a return on my investment I was shocked to see that I had actually lost money. My pot was £15 down and I have £18,293 in it.

That is very possible based on returns of the last 5 years.

For comparisons sake the S&P500 is +98% over the same time period. I could have doubled my money if I put it into that instead.

Anyone can look back at an area and say they could have got more if they invested into that.

its meaningless though as it doesnt mean it will do that in figure and it would mean you investing right at the top end of the risk scale.

Strangly enough, you haven't mentioned what you have invested in.  So, when you say "for comparison's sake", you fail to give us the information to see whether it is a fair comparison or not.  I suspect it is not a fair comparison and you are picking a high risk area that has done well in the last 5 years but what you actually have is a low risk spread that is heavy in bonds, some of which have had their worst period in over 100 years.

When I look in my activity tab I also see Penfold have been taking fee's out every month...

Which is exactly how most providers do it.

I'm regretting that I chose to invest with them at all now, I also regret not checking sooner but there's nothing I can do there. This will be my only pension pot so I really want it to do well, I feel like I've lost 5 years at this stage.

And how would you feel if you were down 40% after 8 years of investing?
That is not a made up scenario.   The S&P500 fell 40% over an 8 year period in recent times.  Its in part linked to why it had done so well (until Trump got in).

Can anyone recommend a better pension provider for me?

Whats wrong with the provider you have?    
You have said you don't like the funds you selected but that doesnt mean you need to change provider.

Is returns like this normal or am I right to be concerned?

Yes it is normal.     The concern is that you are asking for a solution and wanting to make changes without understanding what you have and the issues that the alternative you have mentioned can and will have at some point.

I have money in a trading 212 stocks and shares ISA, I really like that platform (I only ever buy ETF's). Is there a similar platform for your pension where you can pick and choose where the money goes similar to this?

All whole of market platforms allow it.   However, you really need to learn a bit more before you do something like that.   Hopefully, we can get you to that stage.

Start by telling us what portfolio you have on penfold and why you selected it.

My funds are in the Penfold Growth fund, it's managed by blackrock.

I do not understand your comments at all, I really don't.

Over the last 5 years the stock market has been doing extremely well, the idea that I shouldn't expect any growth when most of the market has been at record highs recently is insane to me. That makes no sense at all, what a strange thing to say.

Calling the S&P500 at the high end of the risk scale, what on earth are you saying.

Sticking to the questions I asked:

Whats wrong with the provider you have?    
You have said you don't like the funds you selected but that doesnt mean you need to change provider.

The provider I have isn't doing a very good job with my funds, no growth in 5 years while picking the high growth option while the market is going gangbusters makes no sense to me. I've lost quite a bit when you take inflation into account.

Dunstonh's replies are straightforward and super helpful. They are very experienced and knowledgeable. They are also providing that experience and knowledge to you for free.

I would class myself at the beginner end of the investing scale and their responses make sense to me; if you don't understand their responses, then consider this a good opportunity to get yourself into a beginner level of understanding.

The S&P 500 is completely at the mercy of the stock market, this is why it is high risk - if the stock market plummets, so does the s&p500.

MX5huggy

Are you sure of the numbers because it seems like Penfold may have changed funds recently because people aren’t able to see past performance of the investment option going back years. If they have changed funds it could have reset the growth to date figures. In my simple Vanguard ISA if I look at the fund I’m invested in currently it says I started with £25k and now have £26k disappointing for 5 years of investing regularly. But that’s because sold everything and swapped funds about 6 months ago this is a false figure. I’ve actually put in £20k over the 5 years that is now worth £26k.

Bostonerimus1

MX5huggy said:

Are you sure of the numbers because it seems like Penfold may have changed funds recently because people aren’t able to see past performance of the investment option going back years. If they have changed funds it could have reset the growth to date figures. In my simple Vanguard ISA if I look at the fund I’m invested in currently it says I started with £25k and now have £26k disappointing for 5 years of investing regularly. But that’s because sold everything and swapped funds about 6 months ago this is a false figure. I’ve actually put in £20k over the 5 years that is now worth £26k.

Yes I'm wondering if the loss is just since the start of 2025 as something like the Blackrock MapMy 6 fund is up 53% in the last 5 years. The OP should check the figures and historical investment.

penners324

That'll be very surprising if the fund has gone down over that period of time unless it's heavily weighted in favour of bonds.

Please tell us the exact fund it's in at the moment so this can be checked.

penners324

Nothing wrong with Penfold pensions and fees coming out monthly is standard for all pensions.

penners324

No need for an IFA with only £13k in the pension.

Voyager2002

LowCreditSteve said:

Wow what is the hostility for my guy?

dunstonh said:

When I switch to the growth tab to see how I was doing as a return on my investment I was shocked to see that I had actually lost money. My pot was £15 down and I have £18,293 in it.

That is very possible based on returns of the last 5 years.

For comparisons sake the S&P500 is +98% over the same time period. I could have doubled my money if I put it into that instead.

Anyone can look back at an area and say they could have got more if they invested into that.

its meaningless though as it doesnt mean it will do that in figure and it would mean you investing right at the top end of the risk scale.

Strangly enough, you haven't mentioned what you have invested in.  So, when you say "for comparison's sake", you fail to give us the information to see whether it is a fair comparison or not.  I suspect it is not a fair comparison and you are picking a high risk area that has done well in the last 5 years but what you actually have is a low risk spread that is heavy in bonds, some of which have had their worst period in over 100 years.

When I look in my activity tab I also see Penfold have been taking fee's out every month...

Which is exactly how most providers do it.

I'm regretting that I chose to invest with them at all now, I also regret not checking sooner but there's nothing I can do there. This will be my only pension pot so I really want it to do well, I feel like I've lost 5 years at this stage.

And how would you feel if you were down 40% after 8 years of investing?
That is not a made up scenario.   The S&P500 fell 40% over an 8 year period in recent times.  Its in part linked to why it had done so well (until Trump got in).

Can anyone recommend a better pension provider for me?

Whats wrong with the provider you have?    
You have said you don't like the funds you selected but that doesnt mean you need to change provider.

Is returns like this normal or am I right to be concerned?

Yes it is normal.     The concern is that you are asking for a solution and wanting to make changes without understanding what you have and the issues that the alternative you have mentioned can and will have at some point.

I have money in a trading 212 stocks and shares ISA, I really like that platform (I only ever buy ETF's). Is there a similar platform for your pension where you can pick and choose where the money goes similar to this?

All whole of market platforms allow it.   However, you really need to learn a bit more before you do something like that.   Hopefully, we can get you to that stage.

Start by telling us what portfolio you have on penfold and why you selected it.

My funds are in the Penfold Growth fund, it's managed by blackrock.

I do not understand your comments at all, I really don't.

Over the last 5 years the stock market has been doing extremely well, the idea that I shouldn't expect any growth when most of the market has been at record highs recently is insane to me. That makes no sense at all, what a strange thing to say.

Calling the S&P500 at the high end of the risk scale, what on earth are you saying.

Sticking to the questions I asked:

Whats wrong with the provider you have?    
You have said you don't like the funds you selected but that doesnt mean you need to change provider.

The provider I have isn't doing a very good job with my funds, no growth in 5 years while picking the high growth option while the market is going gangbusters makes no sense to me. I've lost quite a bit when you take inflation into account.

I don't see any hostility here.

Dunstonh has put his finger on the problem, and has made you aware of important issues, things that you don't know and (crucially) don't know that you don't know. All in all, he has given you just about the most helpful possible response.

If you don't want to use an IFA then fine, but try to find out what an IFA would suggest for you.

Freetrade, which is like Trading212, offers a SIPP.

amyfairweather

Hopefully, I have the answer for the OP.

I'm with Penfold as well and I'm very happy with their performance.  Recently, they moved everyone who didn't say otherwise to their new plan.

Until that point, in the app it showed the 'genuine' growth figures, i.e. £1 invested, now worth £2 = 100% return since you joined.

Since the change the other week, the growth is based on the £2 figure (that got reinvested in to the new plan).  So, if it's dropped over the past few weeks, there is your "loss" the OP has experienced.

The OP just needs to look in the Activity section of their app for the part which says "Contributions".  That is the figure they've invested since day one and, I suspect, it won't be anywhere close to £18k, it's probably closer to £12k-£15k which grew to £18,308 - that was reinvested recently and has since dropped £15 in the new plan.

I hope that makes sense.

It would be helpful though for Penfold to update their system to reflect this.  Without delving deeper, it shows my plan "since I joined" has only grown £26.42, whereas in reality it's up over £10k.

Hoenir

Whatever the numbers might be. Every investor needs to have a broad understanding of what they are invested in. Whether it's the right level of risk for themselves personally. Benign markets have existed for so long.  That a degree of complancencey has set in. The next bear market is going to be a savage unwelcome experience to some I suspect. 

Storcko14

Sounds about right @amyfairweather.  The OP would do well to a least create a simple spreadsheet of monies in and monies out or go all in and create a portfolio indexation spreadsheet.  Looks like it could be a bit of a ride over the next year or four so IMHO the more you understand your portfolio the better.