Pension performing poorly, shall I move it?

LowCreditSteve

Hi all,

I'm 35 (if it makes a difference), I'm self employed. About 5 years ago I began contributing to a private pension with Penfold, who at the time were recomended.

Since then my contributions, transfers and tax bonus add up to £18,308. The money is managed by Blackrock in their higher risk plan.

When I switch to the growth tab to see how I was doing as a return on my investment I was shocked to see that I had actually lost money. My pot was £15 down and I have £18,293 in it.

For comparisons sake the S&P500 is +98% over the same time period. I could have doubled my money if I put it into that instead.

When I look in my activity tab I also see Penfold have been taking fee's out every month...

I'm regretting that I chose to invest with them at all now, I also regret not checking sooner but there's nothing I can do there. This will be my only pension pot so I really want it to do well, I feel like I've lost 5 years at this stage.

Can anyone recommend a better pension provider for me?

Is returns like this normal or am I right to be concerned?

I have money in a trading 212 stocks and shares ISA, I really like that platform (I only ever buy ETF's). Is there a similar platform for your pension where you can pick and choose where the money goes similar to this?

Thanks

dunstonh

When I switch to the growth tab to see how I was doing as a return on my investment I was shocked to see that I had actually lost money. My pot was £15 down and I have £18,293 in it.

That is very possible based on returns of the last 5 years.

For comparisons sake the S&P500 is +98% over the same time period. I could have doubled my money if I put it into that instead.

Anyone can look back at an area and say they could have got more if they invested into that.

it's meaningless, though, as it doesn't mean it will do that in future, and it would mean you're investing right at the top end of the risk scale.   However, what you have invested in wouldn't appear to match that risk profile.

Strangely enough, you haven't mentioned what you have invested in.  So, when you say "for comparison's sake", you fail to give us the information to see whether it is a fair comparison or not.  I suspect it is not a fair comparison, and you are picking a high-risk area that has done well in the last 5 years, but what you actually have is a low-risk spread that is heavy in bonds, some of which have had their worst period in over 100 years.

When I look in my activity tab I also see Penfold have been taking fee's out every month...

Which is exactly how most providers do it.

I'm regretting that I chose to invest with them at all now, I also regret not checking sooner but there's nothing I can do there. This will be my only pension pot so I really want it to do well, I feel like I've lost 5 years at this stage.

And how would you feel if you were down 40% after 8 years of investing?
That is not a made-up scenario.   The S&P500 fell 40% over an 8 year period in recent times.  It's in part linked to why it had done so well in the recent cycle (until Trump got in).

Can anyone recommend a better pension provider for me?

What's wrong with the provider you have?    
You have said you don't like the funds you selected, but that doesn't mean you need to change providers.

Is returns like this normal or am I right to be concerned?

Yes, it is normal.     The concern is that you are asking for a solution and wanting to make changes without understanding what you have and the issues that the alternative you have mentioned can and will have at some point.

I have money in a trading 212 stocks and shares ISA, I really like that platform (I only ever buy ETF's). Is there a similar platform for your pension where you can pick and choose where the money goes similar to this?

All whole of market platforms allow it.   However, you really need to learn a bit more before you do something like that.   Hopefully, we can get you to that stage.

Start by telling us what portfolio you have on penfold and why you selected it.

LowCreditSteve

Wow what is the hostility for my guy?

dunstonh said:

When I switch to the growth tab to see how I was doing as a return on my investment I was shocked to see that I had actually lost money. My pot was £15 down and I have £18,293 in it.

That is very possible based on returns of the last 5 years.

For comparisons sake the S&P500 is +98% over the same time period. I could have doubled my money if I put it into that instead.

Anyone can look back at an area and say they could have got more if they invested into that.

its meaningless though as it doesnt mean it will do that in figure and it would mean you investing right at the top end of the risk scale.

Strangly enough, you haven't mentioned what you have invested in.  So, when you say "for comparison's sake", you fail to give us the information to see whether it is a fair comparison or not.  I suspect it is not a fair comparison and you are picking a high risk area that has done well in the last 5 years but what you actually have is a low risk spread that is heavy in bonds, some of which have had their worst period in over 100 years.

When I look in my activity tab I also see Penfold have been taking fee's out every month...

Which is exactly how most providers do it.

I'm regretting that I chose to invest with them at all now, I also regret not checking sooner but there's nothing I can do there. This will be my only pension pot so I really want it to do well, I feel like I've lost 5 years at this stage.

And how would you feel if you were down 40% after 8 years of investing?
That is not a made up scenario.   The S&P500 fell 40% over an 8 year period in recent times.  Its in part linked to why it had done so well (until Trump got in).

Can anyone recommend a better pension provider for me?

Whats wrong with the provider you have?    
You have said you don't like the funds you selected but that doesnt mean you need to change provider.

Is returns like this normal or am I right to be concerned?

Yes it is normal.     The concern is that you are asking for a solution and wanting to make changes without understanding what you have and the issues that the alternative you have mentioned can and will have at some point.

I have money in a trading 212 stocks and shares ISA, I really like that platform (I only ever buy ETF's). Is there a similar platform for your pension where you can pick and choose where the money goes similar to this?

All whole of market platforms allow it.   However, you really need to learn a bit more before you do something like that.   Hopefully, we can get you to that stage.

Start by telling us what portfolio you have on penfold and why you selected it.

My funds are in the Penfold Growth fund, it's managed by blackrock.

I do not understand your comments at all, I really don't.

Over the last 5 years the stock market has been doing extremely well, the idea that I shouldn't expect any growth when most of the market has been at record highs recently is insane to me. That makes no sense at all, what a strange thing to say.

Calling the S&P500 at the high end of the risk scale, what on earth are you saying.

Sticking to the questions I asked:

Whats wrong with the provider you have?    
You have said you don't like the funds you selected but that doesnt mean you need to change provider.

The provider I have isn't doing a very good job with my funds, no growth in 5 years while picking the high growth option while the market is going gangbusters makes no sense to me. I've lost quite a bit when you take inflation into account.

TheMilkmansDad

LowCreditSteve said:

Wow what is the hostility for my guy?

dunstonh said:

When I switch to the growth tab to see how I was doing as a return on my investment I was shocked to see that I had actually lost money. My pot was £15 down and I have £18,293 in it.

That is very possible based on returns of the last 5 years.

For comparisons sake the S&P500 is +98% over the same time period. I could have doubled my money if I put it into that instead.

Anyone can look back at an area and say they could have got more if they invested into that.

its meaningless though as it doesnt mean it will do that in figure and it would mean you investing right at the top end of the risk scale.

Strangly enough, you haven't mentioned what you have invested in.  So, when you say "for comparison's sake", you fail to give us the information to see whether it is a fair comparison or not.  I suspect it is not a fair comparison and you are picking a high risk area that has done well in the last 5 years but what you actually have is a low risk spread that is heavy in bonds, some of which have had their worst period in over 100 years.

When I look in my activity tab I also see Penfold have been taking fee's out every month...

Which is exactly how most providers do it.

I'm regretting that I chose to invest with them at all now, I also regret not checking sooner but there's nothing I can do there. This will be my only pension pot so I really want it to do well, I feel like I've lost 5 years at this stage.

And how would you feel if you were down 40% after 8 years of investing?
That is not a made up scenario.   The S&P500 fell 40% over an 8 year period in recent times.  Its in part linked to why it had done so well (until Trump got in).

Can anyone recommend a better pension provider for me?

Whats wrong with the provider you have?    
You have said you don't like the funds you selected but that doesnt mean you need to change provider.

Is returns like this normal or am I right to be concerned?

Yes it is normal.     The concern is that you are asking for a solution and wanting to make changes without understanding what you have and the issues that the alternative you have mentioned can and will have at some point.

I have money in a trading 212 stocks and shares ISA, I really like that platform (I only ever buy ETF's). Is there a similar platform for your pension where you can pick and choose where the money goes similar to this?

All whole of market platforms allow it.   However, you really need to learn a bit more before you do something like that.   Hopefully, we can get you to that stage.

Start by telling us what portfolio you have on penfold and why you selected it.

My funds are in the Penfold Growth fund, it's managed by blackrock.

I do not understand your comments at all, I really don't.

Over the last 5 years the stock market has been doing extremely well, the idea that I shouldn't expect any growth when most of the market has been at record highs recently is insane to me. That makes no sense at all, what a strange thing to say.

Calling the S&P500 at the high end of the risk scale, what on earth are you saying.

Sticking to the questions I asked:

Whats wrong with the provider you have?    
You have said you don't like the funds you selected but that doesnt mean you need to change provider.

The provider I have isn't doing a very good job with my funds, no growth in 5 years while picking the high growth option while the market is going gangbusters makes no sense to me. I've lost quite a bit when you take inflation into account.

No hostility, just facts from what I've read? Maybe too much info - start with the basics which is the last question asked:

Start by telling us what portfolio you have on penfold and why you selected it.

It's not the provider you need to be questioning ; it's what you are invested in that will shed more light on your reservations.

DRS1

Looking at the Penfold website they don't seem to have a Growth Fund.  They have a Sharia Plan, a Sustainable Plan and a Standard Plan (with 4 levels).

Nor does there seem to be any information on what the underlying investments are.

Mr.Generous

Mine has been invested just under 5 years - here's the returns

Past year : 6.83% / past 3 years : 2.2% / past 5 years : no data /  since inception : 4.09%

It's invested by Verso wealth Management on the Transax platform.

CapricornLass

No disrespect intended to dunstanh, but I think it would be best if you found yourself an independent financial advisor, and talked to them face to face about your pension, ask your questions and get a better understanding of what you have got, and what you are invested in.  Which, the consumer organisation, have information on how to find such a person here -   https://www.which.co.uk/money/investing/financial-advice/how-to-find-a-financial-adviser-afZ375F6BIiC   Then you can start to make some decisions on your way forward.

QrizB

LowCreditSteve said:

My funds are in the Penfold Growth fund, it's managed by blackrock.

Do you mean the "growth" portfolio of the Penfold Plan, as described here?

https://cdn.sanity.io/files/7t8law2o/production/1899e482f94bff4ad984d8c52dd6819776804a8a.pdf

Or something else?

The current Penfold Plan has only been on offer since January 2025, if I'm reading things right. What were you in before that?

Bostonerimus1

LowCreditSteve said:

Wow what is the hostility for my guy?

dunstonh said:

When I switch to the growth tab to see how I was doing as a return on my investment I was shocked to see that I had actually lost money. My pot was £15 down and I have £18,293 in it.

That is very possible based on returns of the last 5 years.

For comparisons sake the S&P500 is +98% over the same time period. I could have doubled my money if I put it into that instead.

Anyone can look back at an area and say they could have got more if they invested into that.

its meaningless though as it doesnt mean it will do that in figure and it would mean you investing right at the top end of the risk scale.

Strangly enough, you haven't mentioned what you have invested in.  So, when you say "for comparison's sake", you fail to give us the information to see whether it is a fair comparison or not.  I suspect it is not a fair comparison and you are picking a high risk area that has done well in the last 5 years but what you actually have is a low risk spread that is heavy in bonds, some of which have had their worst period in over 100 years.

When I look in my activity tab I also see Penfold have been taking fee's out every month...

Which is exactly how most providers do it.

I'm regretting that I chose to invest with them at all now, I also regret not checking sooner but there's nothing I can do there. This will be my only pension pot so I really want it to do well, I feel like I've lost 5 years at this stage.

And how would you feel if you were down 40% after 8 years of investing?
That is not a made up scenario.   The S&P500 fell 40% over an 8 year period in recent times.  Its in part linked to why it had done so well (until Trump got in).

Can anyone recommend a better pension provider for me?

Whats wrong with the provider you have?    
You have said you don't like the funds you selected but that doesnt mean you need to change provider.

Is returns like this normal or am I right to be concerned?

Yes it is normal.     The concern is that you are asking for a solution and wanting to make changes without understanding what you have and the issues that the alternative you have mentioned can and will have at some point.

I have money in a trading 212 stocks and shares ISA, I really like that platform (I only ever buy ETF's). Is there a similar platform for your pension where you can pick and choose where the money goes similar to this?

All whole of market platforms allow it.   However, you really need to learn a bit more before you do something like that.   Hopefully, we can get you to that stage.

Start by telling us what portfolio you have on penfold and why you selected it.

My funds are in the Penfold Growth fund, it's managed by blackrock.

I do not understand your comments at all, I really don't.

Over the last 5 years the stock market has been doing extremely well, the idea that I shouldn't expect any growth when most of the market has been at record highs recently is insane to me. That makes no sense at all, what a strange thing to say.

Calling the S&P500 at the high end of the risk scale, what on earth are you saying.

Sticking to the questions I asked:

Whats wrong with the provider you have?    
You have said you don't like the funds you selected but that doesnt mean you need to change provider.

The provider I have isn't doing a very good job with my funds, no growth in 5 years while picking the high growth option while the market is going gangbusters makes no sense to me. I've lost quite a bit when you take inflation into account.

That you don't understand dunstonh's comments and are buying ETFs scares me a bit. As far as your lack of return over the last 5 years, that's going to depend on fees, asset allocation and sequence of returns. I would not jump ship before understanding what's going on so you can make informed future decisions.

dunstonh

Wow what is the hostility for my guy?

I cannot see anything that indicates any hostility.     I didn't wrap it up in cotton wool as that will often hide the issues. I just gave a straight answer.  Partly because you said you were investing in ETFs (an advanced investor option), and I thought you might understand it.

Putting it more simply,    The last 7 year cycle has been very good (above normal) for US equities.   And it's been absolutely dire for fixed interest securities (aka Bonds), with Gilts in particular having their worst period in over 100 years.

So, a portfolio heavy in US equities would have done well.  A portfolio heavy in bonds would be ballpark zero or negative if heavy in gilts.

That has nothing to do with the provider of your pension.   It has to do with the investments within the portfolio in that particular period.   In the next 7 year period, US equities could be negative and bonds could be positive.

Penfold have just revamped their portfolios and processes. So, we cannot see the historic stuff.  But we do know that the only mainstream areas that are down in your time period are fixed interest securities.  So, that points to you being heavier in gilts and bonds.       Penfold were using the Blackrock MyMap range previously and one of them is negative (You don't give exact dates but ballpark dates were used).

Calling the S&P500 at the high end of the risk scale, what on earth are you saying.

More worrying that you seem to think it isn't.

The provider I have isn't doing a very good job with my funds, no growth in 5 years while picking the high growth option while the market is going gangbusters makes no sense to me. I've lost quite a bit when you take inflation into account

The BlackRock mymap funds are portfolios of passive trackers.  They have returned in line with their asset classes. No more, no less.

redpete

LowCreditSteve said:

Wow what is the hostility for my guy?

From your point of view it might feel like hostility, but dunstonh knows what he's talking about and asks pointed questions to get to the core of the issue. Many of the more experienced posters on these forums find it difficult when people ask questions that are actually the wrong question - and often without providing sufficient information for anyone to give sensible views on what you might do to improve your situation.